Hellbender proposed Endangered

[sixfootfenwick]

Along with eating the juvenile Hellbenders, wouldn’t the added competition from stocking trout also limit calories in a food web?
Although I would love to see stocking stop over native fish and Hellbenders, I highly doubt, given the track record of the PFBC, that this would be enough to get them to stop.

I highly doubt it too but ultimately it would depend on what US Fish and Wildlife determine, not the PFBC.

All I'm trying to point out is this thought isn't that far out there. With respect to introduced species, nonnative predatory fishes have been linked to population declines for a number of species. Trout (Family Salmonidae), in particular, have been introduced around the world (MacCrimmon,1971) and have been shown to have strong negative effects on some amphibian populations. For example, introduction of trout into fishless mountain lakes in the western United States has led to population extinctions of the yellow-legged frog (Rana muscosa) throughout much of its range.

 

[CRB]

Black Fly or absence of are probably a connected environmental coincidence along with the the spraying for Black Nile disease.

 

[tomgamber]

If you saw the he'll benders I've caught, you'd be more worried about the fish. Was sure I snagged a log.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Not really how it works. In fact crayfish make up the majority of a Hellbenders diet. They can and do eat small bottom dwelling minnows and suckers. Fish are in fact more predatory on Hellbenders than Hellbenders on fish. Their size is impressive but fish can do their damage at the larvae stage.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

https://ag.purdue.edu/department/extension/hellbender/_docs/gall-responsenative.pdf

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1439-0310.2009.01718.x

https://ag.purdue.edu/department/extension/hellbender/_docs/gall-predatorprey.pdf

Here is the research that I am aware of pertaining to non native trout interactions with hellbenders. Please read and form your own opinions.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

https://ag.purdue.edu/department/extension/hellbender/_docs/gall-responsenative.pdf

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1439-0310.2009.01718.x

https://ag.purdue.edu/department/extension/hellbender/_docs/gall-predatorprey.pdf

Here is the research that I am aware of pertaining to non native trout interactions with hellbenders. Please read and form your own opinions.

My opinion from reading those, other states observations and other links is this:

https://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Cryptobranchus_alleganiensis/#:~:text=terrestrial%20worms-,Predation,hellbenders%20(Cryptobranchus%20alleganiensis)

Elimination of stocked trout would reduce hellbender predators by 33 percent where naturalized trout populations don't exist.

Hellbender

Hellbenders are large aquatic salamanders that can grow more than two feet in length. They live in freshwater streams in parts of New York, Pennsylvania and Virginia.

www.chesapeakebay.net

It is strange and our fault that these trout are even named as predators to eastern hellbender populations.

Trout biomass is measured in lbs/acre or kg/ha.
While it varies by stream of course, I see a danger of raising the biomass levels of 33 percent of the predators to a level well above 100 percent and likely in cases 1000's.

Hellbenders produce egg nest of about 150-400 eggs. In nests of 400, 90 make it to larvae stage.

• Historically, there were 626 documented populations of eastern hellbenders, but only 371 remain.
• Of the remaining populations, only 12% are stable, while 59% are in decline.
• 2.4 million rainbow trout, 693,000 brown trout, 125,000 brook trout, 72,000 trophy-sized brood fish, and 14,000 golden rainbow trout were stocked by the PFBC in 2025
• The exact number of Hellbenders in Pennsylvania is unknown, but estimates are low. The eastern hellbender, Pennsylvania's state amphibian, is a declining species.
• The majority of the Pennsylvania Hellbender range, if not all, is stocked with trout.

It seems logical to me this would have some kind of affect on their population. I think it should be studied. I also think some watersheds should just be taken off the stocking list as soon as possible while studies are being conducted.

There is an ever growing list of species declining in the name of recreational opportunities across the country.
It's pretty gross.
Humans are called to be stewards of the Earth, we are terrible at tending to this.

LONG TERM MONITORING OF A HISTORIC EASTERN HELLBENDER POPULATION IN NORTHWESTERN PENNSYLVANIA – 19th Annual River Symposium

I'd like to read more about this. What was the stream and is it stocked?

Fascinating that juvenile Hellbenders were not in their catch, will they ever find them?
Equally alarming is that this taking place in PA, in an area with the best habitat remaining in the state.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

Question. Hellbenders lay eggs Sept/oct. They hatch in two months. I did not dig deep enough to know when they vulnerable. Does it overlap with the March-June when most of stocked trout exist in streams?

 

[sixfootfenwick]

It takes 2 years for larvae to transition into juveniles.
They should be about 2 inches after the first year, probably about 1.2 - 1.5 inches come March-June

 

[Mike]

Question. Hellbenders lay eggs Sept/oct. They hatch in two months. I did not dig deep enough to know when they vulnerable. Does it overlap with the March-June when most of stocked trout exist in streams?

“Dig deep” is an interesting choice of words since larvae may find greater security in large, deep gravel beds (when available) where macroinvertebrate populations are also abundant (Nickerson et al. 2003). It’s possible that comparatively few individuals may dwell near the surface of such large gravel beds, unlike what one sees with substrate surface dwelling frog and toad tadpoles. Suitability of cobble habitat for larval hellbenders may vary with the extent to which substrate interstices are embedded with sediments ( Unger et al. 2020). As such, larval hellbenders may be less vulnerable to predation in natural environments with good quality substrates and more vulnerable where preferred substrate quality/quantity is reduced. Furthermore, hellbenders are largely nocturnal and daylight cover seekers, which adds to their ability to avoid predators. It would be interesting to see a multi-site, large sample size, trout species specific, late winter/spring gut analysis study of stocked adult trout from trout stocked hellbender streams (and maybe even tack on a substrate quality component).

Nickerson, M. A., Krysko, K. L., and Owen, R. D. (2003). Habitat differences affecting age class distributions of the hellbender salamander, Cryptobranchus alleganiensis. Southeastern Naturalist, 2(4):619-629.

Unger, S., Bodinof-Jachowski, C., Diaz, L., and Williams, L. A. (2020). Observations on habitat preference of juvenile eastern hellbender salamander (Cryptobranchus, alleganiensis). acta ethologica https://doi.org/10.1007/s10211-020-00344-9

 

[nymphingmaniac]

It takes 2 years for larvae to transition into juveniles.
They should be about 2 inches after the first year, probably about 1.2 - 1.5 inches come March-June

perfect snack size then. thanks.

 

[Cznymph]

You were not there. I can't explain my experience any clearer. It happened the way I described. I'm sorry you can't visualize it from my description.

Depending on what you are referring to as the poconos, it’s most likely that this stream is in the Delaware River Basin, and thus not in the range of hellbenders.