HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

The word is the bill sponsors don't have the votes - therefore it has not been brought to the floor.

If a representative supports this bill and they represent your district. One must think long and hard about who they are really representing. IMO.

 
That is the key.

I believe we are standing at the threshold of a great opportunity for fishing in our state. There appears to be movement and support for a sustainable approach to the PFBC's mission "...to protect, conserve, and enhance the Commonwealth’s aquatic resources...".

That said, those who see this sustainable approach as threatening know that now is the time to stop it, before it can be shown to be successful.

I believe the commission and those that support the protection, conservation and enhancement of wild trout habitat need to work very closely together over the next few months and years to educate the public and public officials on the benefits of this mission. We, as a community, need to be as active as possible. We have a lot to gain by working together protecting clean water and wild trout streams go hand in hand. A threat to the one is a threat to the other. This bill (as it is now written) is a threat to wild trout streams and therefore is a threat to our clean drinking water.
 
Derek, I agree with you, but with our state gubermint, I've come to hope for the best and expect the worst. I hope I'm wrong.
 
Good job everyone getting the word spread! I just received an e-mail from PennFuture stating this:

"On Monday afternoon, legislative leaders started counting the votes for and against HB 1576. House Republican leaders were surely stunned to discover that less than half of their 101 members were willing to vote yes this week.

House Democratic leaders learned that perhaps there were only 15 firm yes votes in their caucus."

The bill is now stalled.
 
How long can this bill be "stalled" till its considered "dead" and not up for consideration?

 
double00 wrote:
How long can this bill be "stalled" till its considered "dead" and not up for consideration?

Until the end of the legislative session which I believe ends in December.
This is great news to hear. I sent letters to the editor of the Easton Express and the Morning Call and I hope they got people to call their reps. I ask my rep if he had a change of heart and he replied that if it comes up for a vote he will still vote yes.
Don't relax everybody. They still have a lot of time to bring it to a vote. They may amend it a little or a lot. I am hoping that with many of them up for election this year they will let this bill die.
Bill
 
In an election year. I don't see the political capital being there to pass this neanderthal bill. That said make your voice heard.
 
Its more important than ever to go out and vote D this year. Its pretty obvious how things are going to continue to go with the R's in charge. I'm not a big fan of either party and the D's do suck as well but this crap with the R's and the gas industry over the last few years is just beyond unacceptable.

And the best part is we are letting these guys destroy our state for free, we dont even get taxes from them! Pretty soon if going to the polls doesnt work other actions may have to be considered, this is just madness
 
From the lamdowners and what they make, not from the gas companies
 
The gas companies don't pay extraction tax, but wouldn't they pay the normal corporate taxes that all other businesses pay?
 
Yes, they pay normal corporate taxes.

And they pay taxes in addition to that. It's called an "impact fee". They set it up like that because most of the impacts are local, and for the most part, the local authorities get the revenue from the impact fee, whereas the state general fund would get an "extraction tax". It's on a per well basis.

Personally, I will not vote for any politician who would implement an extraction tax. I consider it a MAJOR problem.

The idea of them paying ANY extra tax is due to any environmental damage they may cause as well as the costs associated with supporting them. Roads and bridges, handling traffic, more DEP and DCNR inspectors, permit issuing, local sewage facilities, zoning issues, etc. I get that and support it.

But the idea of an impact fee is to actually pay for that kind of stuff. To fix the ills that the companies cause that go above and beyond what normal corporate taxes support. But an extraction fee is something different. The justification is largely the same, but ONLY reason for setting it up like that is so that they can use the extra money for something unrelated, like funding a school in another part of the state, and NOT FIXING THE PROBLEM THAT JUSTIFIES THE TAX.

It'd be like if in the coal mining days, the companies paid to clean up AMD (which would have been good), but the politicians didn't actually use it to clean up the AMD, and instead funded something else.

It really p&#$$#@ me off that they somehow hoodwinked those with environmental concerns into this "extraction tax" position, which would allow environmentally justified money to go towards non-environmental causes.

If the impact fee needs to be raised, or distributed differently to fully capture the costs, then lets talk. I'm on board. But lets keep any extra taxes the gas companies pay earmarked to combat problems that gas companies cause. For non-related stuff, the gas companies should pay what any other business pays as part of the standard business taxes, and they do.
 
pcray1231 wrote:
Yes, they pay normal corporate taxes.

And they pay taxes in addition to that. It's called an "impact fee". They set it up like that because most of the impacts are local, and for the most part, the local authorities get the revenue from the impact fee, whereas the state general fund would get an "extraction tax". It's on a per well basis.

Personally, I will not vote for any politician who would implement an extraction tax. I consider it a MAJOR problem.

The idea of them paying ANY extra tax is due to any environmental damage they may cause as well as the costs associated with supporting them. Roads and bridges, handling traffic, more DEP and DCNR inspectors, permit issuing, local sewage facilities, zoning issues, etc. I get that and support it.

But the idea of an impact fee is to actually pay for that kind of stuff. To fix the ills that the companies cause that go above and beyond what normal corporate taxes support. But an extraction fee is something different. The justification is largely the same, but ONLY reason for setting it up like that is so that they can use the extra money for something unrelated, like funding a school in another part of the state, and NOT FIXING THE PROBLEM THAT JUSTIFIES THE TAX.

It'd be like if in the coal mining days, the companies paid to clean up AMD (which would have been good), but the politicians didn't actually use it to clean up the AMD, and instead funded something else.

It really p&#$$#@ me off that they somehow hoodwinked those with environmental concerns into this "extraction tax" position, which would allow environmentally justified money to go towards non-environmental causes.

If the impact fee needs to be raised, or distributed differently to fully capture the costs, then lets talk. I'm on board. But lets keep any extra taxes the gas companies pay earmarked to combat problems that gas companies cause. For non-related stuff, the gas companies should pay what any other business pays as part of the standard business taxes, and they do.
The extraction tax is something every state has, but with the political climate being as it is the "R's" would use it in the general fund, I'm not sure about how the "D's" would use it, hopefully it would fund things like clean up. As long as the "R's" control the Government in PA we will not get off the trash the environment for the good of businesses mind set.
I my self would rather vote Libertarian than vote for any "R." But I'd probably not do vote libertarian.
 
It was my recollection that during the first failure of getting an extraction tax passed (when the D's controlled PA) Rendell was the architect of using the ET for the general fund. When he and the Ds had control, there was a chance for a compromised ET, but he stood firm about this. Then he ran out of time.
Doesn't address what's going on now and the R's resistance to an ET, but the idea that Rs push using it for the general fund is incorrect IMO

philosophically, Rs would keep taxes local, Ds would spread the wealth
 
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2010/07/many_questions_remain_on_propo.html

How to distribute the revenue
Gov. Ed Rendell’s first proposal would have sent 90 percent of Marcellus gas tax revenue straight into the state’s general fund.

Not so fast, legislators on both sides of the aisle said.

Democrats and Republicans agree that some part of the gas tax should go toward environmental programs.

Republicans from areas where the drilling is taking place, as well as some Democrats, say a significant part should also go to local governments in drilling areas.

Local municipalities are having some "real issues" with the drilling, said Senate President Joe Scarnati, R-Jefferson County, and they should have help dealing with issues as varied as degraded local roads and increased demands on local emergency responders who are the first line of defense when accidents happen.
 
Yes I'm sure you're right. D's would use it to fund mass transit in Philly.
 
OK, and while everyone is arguing over which side is worse we are the ones that lose.

This comes down to us taking the time to protect that which matters most to us, the companies sure as hell are. I love wild trout streams and clean drinking water and want to see more in PA. Be sure to let your reps know what you want.

This fight is far from over. They will not stop. There are transmission pipelines that need built. One is headed right for one of my favorite local wild streams here in my county.

which leads me to question: if the gas company tear up a recently restored stream, do they pay back the local groups that spent years resorting said stream?
 
TimRobinsin wrote:

which leads me to question: if the gas company tear up a recently restored stream, do they pay back the local groups that spent years resorting said stream?

I am sure they would have to put it back the way they found it at least.
 
start at 1:35:45 and watch until 1:36:31




The statement is that an honest man has nothing to hide.

My response is: until he has to answer to dishonest men.

this is the reasoning that the other side tries to use against us. this is not about doing what is best for PA it is about what is best for the out of state companies taking advantage of our bountiful natural resources so that they may sell them to whomever they want and that includes China. This fight is not over.
 
are you serious Maurice?
 
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