HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

[TimRobinsin]

so would getting people together in harrisburg some day be helpful? is anyone working on bringing a little more press attention to this? I think thats what we really need. lets get this on the local evening news, it seems to be the only thing older people listen to and believe.

 

[shortrod2]

Stenonema wrote:
It was a good strategic move to get the USP on their side. Anyone hear what their reason for their support is?

From the link AFish provided: The USP make no bones about it, they fully support gas drilling everywhere and will side against the GC at any opportunity.

The state camp assoc. are similarly in opposition to "green" groups that they believe are trying to do away with the state lease camps.

Seems to me both groups are throwing the baby out with bath water.

 

[Stenonema]

I guess the PGC could shut the USP up if they would stock deer for them. Does anyone else see the logic in that?

 

[Paulson]

Gone4Day wrote:

Stenonema wrote:
Who will appoint the Board members?

The “Independent Regulatory Review Committee” is comprised of 5 members, 1 appointed by the governor, 2 from the majority parties in the house and senate, and 2 from the minority party.

If they were full time positions occupied by qualified professionals making decisions on sound, objective basis, they might have some value. But since they are political appointees likely to change with every election, they are worse then useless. Calling them an IRRC is a joke.

Do you have a source for the appointment of board members?

Unless there is a massive push of more than "outdoor enthusiasts," I for see passage of this HB. In honesty here, "average" PA citizens could care less about a Class A stream. They would like their McMansion, 2.5 kids, and a nice new car in their garage. At least in my scope of area, that is what you will see, and where do a majority of our votes come from? Urbanized populated areas that will swing the Jerry.

That being said, money is number one priority here. "They" are playing this exactly how they want us to look at it; all or nothing. As we see issues like this time and time again, it becomes a matter of playing the system.

They want money? Waste theirs. I believe we do have the ability to play to the bureaucratic system in reverse, meaning, setting up further controls and constraints to buy our side time. The push of the Big Gas and Gov. tie is to red tape the situation while they get a further foothold on the resources and by the time precautions are set in place, it is a clean up and restoration effort. Same country, same state, same county, same township, different day.

That seems to be bleak reality in my limited experience on this planet, and I hope I get proven wrong. An outright appeal to the House makes a lot of sense and I will be writing my Rep. Getting the language changed is the most feasible option, and I will be writing my Rep in plea to see that be done.

We know this bill is a total stampede upon protected resources and species, and they are playing this on technicality. But, who else besides us knows? In comparison we are a small community but it is up to us to decide how big our voice is.

 

[TimRobinsin]

if there was a set day and time to stand on the steps of harrisburg and make your voice heard would you go? would you take the time off from work and show up? would you even help organize such an event so that at least you did more than crab about it online or only explain away why it's pointless or why the otherside has already won? I hear a lot of debate and I hear a lot of "thats the way it is" but I don't hear any hope. I know we are only a small group and but we can be heard if we want to be heard. how bad does it have to get before you do something? or if this gets through what happens when your water is damaged or something terrible happens to our water, will you think to yourself "man I should have said something" or will you be one of those people who says "told ya so!" but you really know that you never told anyone who didn't already know.

Nows the time, we could do something about this, however small. it's one thing to send individual emails it is another to come together face to face. we are not just a bunch of emails that get to be read and deleted and sent a standard form response. we are the people that make the decisions and if we don't like where this one is headed its time to change the conversation and be heard.

 

[BrookieChaser]

I was told by my representative that this bill does not give industry any say in the designation process. Also the agencies will still hold the power to put their own designations in place based on their own standards. It is basically a review board to make sure all "t's" are crossed and "i's" are dotted.

Now if only I could believe that.

 

[Paulson]

I am in full agreement. We as citizens often forget that we are the government, in its most basic principal. So, PAflyfish.com, what can at least we do?

 

[troutbert]

The following gives a good indication of where the mainstream of PA outdoors people are on the issue.

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Thursday, January 9, 2014

Sportsmen Call On General Assembly To Protect Sensitive Fish & Wildlife

Pennsylvania’s largest sportsmen’s groups joined forces Thursday to send a strong message to members of the Pennsylvania General Assembly: Hunters and anglers throughout the Commonwealth oppose House Bill 1576 (Pyle-R-Armstrong) and Senate Bill 1047 (Scarnati-R- Jefferson).

The Pennsylvania Federation of Sportsmen’s Clubs, the Pennsylvania Council of Trout Unlimited, the Pennsylvania Trapper’s Association, and the Pennsylvania Chapters of the National Wild Turkey Federation, Quality Deer Management Association, the Izaak Walton League of America and Pheasants Forever, sent a letter to Pennsylvania legislators Thursday urging them to put science before politics, when it comes to fish and wildlife conservation. Collectively, these groups represent more than 100,000 sportsmen and women in Pennsylvania—a constituency that generates nearly $1.5 billion annually for the state’s economy.
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[Stenonema]

I see all the hunters and trappers and fisherman are on board. What about the Audobon society or Peta.. Where are they on this. They sure can make noise about other things.

 

[troutbert]

Just Google "HB 1576 Audubon" and you'll see that they are very much opposed to the bill.

 

[pcray1231]

"They" are playing this exactly how they want us to look at it; all or nothing. As we see issues like this time and time again, it becomes a matter of playing the system.

They want money? Waste theirs. I believe we do have the ability to play to the bureaucratic system in reverse, meaning, setting up further controls and constraints to buy our side time.

Well said. There seems to be nobody at all interested in maximizing the cost/benefit trade-off.

I want us to drill and for the PA economy to bring in oodles of money from it. I also want it to be done in as efficient, sustainable, and environmentally friendly way as possible.

I recognize there will be trade-offs, and am willing to approach those. There's a million decisions within the broader topic. Some have a tiny benefit on one side and a huge cost on the other, and others have a huge benefit and a tiny cost. Regardless of which side is which, you make a logical decision.

But nobody is interested in that. You have one side trying to throw up unnecessary roadblocks at every turn and the other side who wants to prevent even necessary roadblocks. We'd like to think they even themselves out and you get something rather logical in the middle. But that doesn't happen. It's not one debate. It's a host of sub-debates with the same "teams" always on the same sides. And you end up with each side winning some and losing some, meaning all of the outcomes = stupidity!!

Sigh. So it goes, I guess.

 

[afishinado]

pcray1231 wrote:

...And you end up with each side winning some and losing some, meaning all of the outcomes = [d]stupidity!![/d] compromise

When neither side is very happy, it's likely ya got it just about right.

The current Governor/Administration is way too slanted one way (IMO) and is trying to ramrod things (favorable to the gas guys) through the Legislature before he is shown the door in the next election. It's up to us by making our voices heard the many organizations mentioned and voting for the right people at election time. The leadership in Harrisburg has to take both positions into consideration and make the right decisions for the future.

We can have clean burning natty gas as well as clean drinking water and wild trout in PA.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

afishinado wrote:
We can have clean burning natty gas as well as clean drinking water and wild trout in PA.

Amen.

 

[pcray1231]

When neither side is very happy, it's likely ya got it just about right.

No, it doesn't. Not usually, anyway. Because it's not one issue. It's a whole bunch of sub-issues. And each extreme is presented as an option, and one side wins.

So you get a anti-logical pro-drilling solution on one thing. And then an anti-logical anti-drilling solution on another. And on those rare situations where compromise is reached, it's "I'll let you do something stupid on this if you let me do something stupid on that. Then we both get to claim victory. Deal?"

This is how stupidity happens.

 

[double00]

In case anyone was laboring under any delusions regarding this bill and what its intentions are.

"Mr. Pyle, in a phone interview with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette last September, acknowledged and strongly defended his legislation’s strong economic focus and its permitting benefits for the Marcellus Shale gas and coal mining industries."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/news/environment/2014/01/09/Outdoor-groups-protest-bill-on-endangered-species/stories/201401090279#ixzz2qZPscgIT

From PPG online article Jan 9th, 2014.

We can indeed have both: mineral and resource extraction done in a manner that is reponsible enough to do its best to ensure the protection of the environment, and the water, and ultimately the health of those who live around the extraction.

Thats exactly what the system in place now helps keep in balance.

However, with human nature being what it is, greed takes over and now a bill like this comes out which seems for all the world to want to take that balance away.

This bill is extreme.

 

[greenlander]

double00 wrote:
"Mr. Pyle, in a phone interview with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette last September, acknowledged and strongly defended his legislation’s strong economic focus and its permitting benefits for the Marcellus Shale gas and coal mining industries."

...

This bill is extreme.

Yeah, there hasn't been much need to read between the lines here. Though the bill's supporters have often used euphemisms to define their reasons for support, they've also been explicit about the "economic interests" they're focused on.

But the bill's language and that of its supporters is unequivocal and clear that the goal is to place economic development (and specifically that of the energy extraction and other large scale development industries) ahead of wild trout and endangered species protection.

 

[allan_s]

I don't know how Pyle, or any of his co signers, can look in the mirror at night knowing that this bill benefits one thing, themselves. Is it suprising this slimeball or the other people who co signed this bill get a majority of money from energy companies. I am sure their retirements are are already set just for trying to get this through. What do they care if they win reelection this year, they are set for life. Unbelievable...

 

[mario66pens]

allan_s wrote:
I don't know how Pyle, or any of his co signers, can look in the mirror at night knowing that this bill benefits one thing, themselves. Is it suprising this slimeball or the other people who co signed this bill get a majority of money from energy companies. I am sure their retirements are are already set just for trying to get this through. What do they care if they win reelection this year, they are set for life. Unbelievable...

Well said.

 

[TimRobinsin]

Here is a copy of the most recent email I sent my Senator:

Sir,

I wish to know where you stand on HB1576 and why. I do not want a form letter response, I want to know your actual stance on this bill and why you believe this is in the best interest for our commonwealth and my family. I have two young boys and we love to go fishing together. When I read this bill and watched the public comment hearing on this bill that was held at Indiana University I was left dumbfounded by what is clearly a breach of the public trust doctrine in our state constitution. If the regulations involved with doing certain types of business in Pa are too strict then change those regulations. Do not, however, remove our right to the scientific evidence that our tax dollars pay for from the PFBC.

While transparency and consistency with in the ES process are necessary this bill goes above and beyond what is needed by calling for an IRRC process. This will only cost us more tax money we do not have and will bring politics into a purely scientific process.

I look forward to your response and hope that you recieve my concerns in the spirit of stewardship that we are all called to maintain in this great commonwealth.

Kindly,

It took them a week to respond but they did. Here is the response:

Mr. "Robinsin",

Thank you for writing to Sen. Smucker. I spoke with him yesterday and he asked me to give you a call to discuss this bill. I was not able to find a phone number, however, and I was hoping you could give me a ring at 717-397-1309.

I look forward to speaking with you.

Justin Quinn
Communications Specialist
Office of Senator Lloyd K. Smucker
123 North Prince Street
Lancaster, PA 17603
P: 717-397-1309
M: 717-381-5385
http://SenatorSmucker.com

So I have not called him back but I will this week. I suggest the rest of you who are genuinely interested this put your money and time where your mouth or fingers are and write a similar letter. We can make a difference.

Not that it is anyone's business but I am not against "fracking" I am against this move by the industry to hand-cuff our PFBC from doing their job. If they got a problem with the reg's protecting these species then they need to address the reg's and requirements involved with protecting those species which DO NOT come from PFBC. You cannot deny scientific proof that determines the condition of a species because it inconveniences you.

 

[BrookieChaser]

I'm not so sure the PFBC is funded by taxes. I know the PGC is independent. I assumed the PFBC is funded by license sales just as the PGC.

This may be why the PGC and PFBC are the only agencies not covered by the current IRRC.