Ahhh. Yes. The classic Joe for Joe blunder.
Spot finder fees. First I have heard of such a thing
- Thread starter dudemanspecial
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jackstrawphilly
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I was an avid watcher of his Drew’s videos, found them fun, refreshing, and enjoyable-especially because he doesn’t talk over every catch saying “here’s a nice brownie“!
What is sad is he epitomized the free spirit and public access mantra, only to turn it 180° around and make it for people with big money to take shortcuts.
Hopefully this does not start a new market for a spot sellers!
What is sad is he epitomized the free spirit and public access mantra, only to turn it 180° around and make it for people with big money to take shortcuts.
Hopefully this does not start a new market for a spot sellers!
Tabasco-Joe
Active member
I didn't even by a bamboo rod yet. (If you saw my gear thread.)
Tabasco-Joe
Active member
I think things have settled down now and forum members appreciate the full value of the site.
But I remember early days when sharing information received much more criticism.
SBecker
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I hire guides often when on family trips or trips with the wife, because I may only have a day. I am trying to get the most out of that one day. Especially if my kids are with me. If I am heading away on a buddy trip for fishing, never do we get guides. We explore and figure it out, because we have the time to do it. In regards to physical limitations, I actually had screw downs tapped in my Clacka for a wheel chair. I hope to use them one day.
Is hiring a guide ethical? Yes, but I am biased.
My first reaction to this thread was... this guy is doing what most guides already do. Get paid to show somewhere to fish. So, don't really see a problem with it. However, as a guide I kinda vet my clients. If you are a repeat client you kinda earn those secret spots. You do this by getting to know them over time and understand who they are. I quickly can figure out if my client is actually trying to learn, or just make pin drops on his phone. I may take them to the same streams, but we all know some sections are better than others. Nothing you couldn't figure out from the local fly shop with locations.
This dude is just not having to do any of the work a guide does and is just making a monetary transaction and dropping a pin. Guiding is hard. I think my wife finally has figured that out. She started off telling me I was just going to go off and have fun fishing. She quickly realized, there is a ton more into it and especially mentally.
In conclusion, this dude is a hack. lol
Tabasco-Joe
Active member
Where do you guide?
Yea, guiding on float trips is a whole nother level of work.
Not to mention investment.
tjsingle
Well-known member
Kind of funny he'd charge people money for spots that anyone can access, really that just defeats the purpose of exploring and learning how to actually fish. Yeah we live in a instant satisfaction society, but there's a part of fly fishing, and really any outdoor activity that you have to work for to get the results you want.
I know in the past videos he's mentioned how people who followed him gave him a lead on a creek or even met up with him to fish, I wonder how they feel?
In no way, shape or form, is this guiding, its monetized spot burning. Guides do so much more than just take you to a spot. The good ones teach you tactics or techniques that you can apply to your home waters and if your DIY fishing the next day. I've hired a bunch of different guides over the years, mostly in places I never fished before on a trip, often times to try to lessen the learning curve or make the most of the limited time I have in a area I always wanted to fish.
For example, my wife and I spent a week in Montana last fall. Always wanted to go. We floated a famous river and we both caught a ton of fish. My guide coached up my wife and helped her catch trout all day long with nasty winds. I'd venture to say that I personally couldn't have done that.
I know in the past videos he's mentioned how people who followed him gave him a lead on a creek or even met up with him to fish, I wonder how they feel?
In no way, shape or form, is this guiding, its monetized spot burning. Guides do so much more than just take you to a spot. The good ones teach you tactics or techniques that you can apply to your home waters and if your DIY fishing the next day. I've hired a bunch of different guides over the years, mostly in places I never fished before on a trip, often times to try to lessen the learning curve or make the most of the limited time I have in a area I always wanted to fish.
For example, my wife and I spent a week in Montana last fall. Always wanted to go. We floated a famous river and we both caught a ton of fish. My guide coached up my wife and helped her catch trout all day long with nasty winds. I'd venture to say that I personally couldn't have done that.
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Tabasco-Joe
Active member
Can't you get the same information in a book (I agree not all streams in all areas) or at a local fly shop?
I do understand some appeal to the idea.
If I go out west on a vacation and only have two days to fish, I'd rather get on a good stream than spend a lot of time exploring. But I'm not paying hundreds for that. Especially when I can hire a local guide.
I've never hired a fishing guide, but I have hired hunting guides out west. A good guide makes for a more enjoyable, more educational, trip.
TerrellBFly
Member
I used to watch his videos as they were fun to watch on days I could not get out and the fact that he was quiet and not annoying was nice. However, after this, I have unfollowed him and will not support such nonsense. The internet ruined a lot, and also helped a lot, but this is a bridge too far.
tjsingle
Well-known member
You can definitely find some great information in books and at fly shops. I think the issue I have with it is, its just circumventing that normal research most of us do when going on a trip whether its DIY or guided or a little bit of both.
BradFromPotter
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Bit_ch all you want, but it's pretty much no different then writing a book about the same streams. He just making more money with less work then being an author. I'm surprised no one has done this before. Maybe they have?
My price list is as follows:
4-6" Brook Trout $400 per stream.
6-8" Brook Trout $600 per stream
8" & up $1200 per stream
My price list is as follows:
4-6" Brook Trout $400 per stream.
6-8" Brook Trout $600 per stream
8" & up $1200 per stream
dudemanspecial
Well-known member
Does it come with lunch?
5footfenwick
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High school year book: ……………
“Most likely to kiss and tell”
“Most likely to kiss and tell”
I fished Montana a few years ago and booked guides for a couple of days. They put me on some great streams that were not in any Montana guidebooks - so local knowledge helped a lot. Guide books and fly shops sent everyone to Rock Ck, guides gave up less crowded, less pressured fish and better wading spots.
Another problem out West is the region is a patchwork of public and private land where getting to streams on public land without going over private property is difficult. Some private landowners rigorously patrol their property so some public lands become their private hunting and fishing spots in essence. Not all public land is easy to get to in the West and local knowledge and help is sometimes needed. The easier to get to streams have more pressure than those awkward to get to places.
Another problem out West is the region is a patchwork of public and private land where getting to streams on public land without going over private property is difficult. Some private landowners rigorously patrol their property so some public lands become their private hunting and fishing spots in essence. Not all public land is easy to get to in the West and local knowledge and help is sometimes needed. The easier to get to streams have more pressure than those awkward to get to places.
wildtrout2
Well-known member
No, the streams he fishes aren't "secret" streams and do appear on maps, but they are mostly fairly remote streams, many with great trout fishing. What he's selling is the info on exactly which streams are worth the effort and WILL produce great results, without folks exploring blindly and fishing streams that don't produce nearly as well.
5footfenwick
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The problem is the damage. One guy makes $500 bucks one time and an entire watershed, an entire drainage is potentially destroyed. Shoved 100 years into the future in terms of popularity.
Broodstock
Well-known member
Well, this sucks. His videos were fun to watch. I also unsubscribed. As a guy who grew up bass fishing, I really did like his kayak bass content and seeing the versatility he had as an angler. His small stream fly casting was pretty good. I do feel some empathy for him. It is tough to fuel your passion and allow time to do it while supporting a family and trying to do that without a full time job. It must be tough to make it as a "fish influencer" but there are a few role models in this area. Not many, but a few - like Dave and Amelia Jensen who are two of the nicest people you could ever meet, and they work hard to educate, and they do a lot to protect the spots they invest time in finding. They guide, they film, they have a patreon, and they make it work. Not many can.
Selling spots is very stupid. Let's be real though - how many of the people who you think will pay $500 to be given a set of GPS on public land will have the skills to properly fish that water? My guess is not many. They also would likely not have the respect for the resource that is needed.
Selling spots is very stupid. Let's be real though - how many of the people who you think will pay $500 to be given a set of GPS on public land will have the skills to properly fish that water? My guess is not many. They also would likely not have the respect for the resource that is needed.
TerrellBFly
Member
Thinking more on this.... I understand the idea behind this. However, those of us who bust our humps and look for new water and actually end up finding good water, earn that knowledge through the time, effort, and everything else that goes into figuring this sport out. This offer is the antithesis of that concept. Information easily obtained is given away easily, and location knowledge becomes exponential at that point - everyone has a buddy they share with, and so on.
Those of us who "work" to find such locations keep them secret because we understand what goes into it - I will never be upset for finding someone fishing a blue line that found it themselves, and I will think of them as a better fisherperson as a result - because we know what goes into it. This whole thing is most unfortunate and a sign of the times. I am glad I don't frequent any of these creeks (because I don't live out there), but if I did, I would be absolutely livid. I expect other YT guys to get on Looknfishy's case, because they KNOW and fish where he fishes - they just have the integrity to not burn spots.
Those of us who "work" to find such locations keep them secret because we understand what goes into it - I will never be upset for finding someone fishing a blue line that found it themselves, and I will think of them as a better fisherperson as a result - because we know what goes into it. This whole thing is most unfortunate and a sign of the times. I am glad I don't frequent any of these creeks (because I don't live out there), but if I did, I would be absolutely livid. I expect other YT guys to get on Looknfishy's case, because they KNOW and fish where he fishes - they just have the integrity to not burn spots.
wildtrout2
Well-known member
The thing is, the streams he's "selling out" are mostly, if not totally remote, relatively unfished streams with very good trout populations. The average fly fisherman wouldn't have much trouble at all catching these unpressured trout.
So, I could envision these creeks becoming negatively affected with enough pressure as a result of this selfish concept.
Also, you can bet that the folks who do get the info from Drew, once they experience the quality fishing, will indeed tell others about these locations. And they will no doubt tell others, and so on.
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CLSports
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I do not see the difference between what he is doing and if someone hired him as a guide to do the exact same thing.
Not too many people will take him up on that offer unless they are out of state and want to find a decent area, but have little time to explore. In those cases, they will probably not even return that often. No big deal. It is way better than broadcasting the locations on YouTube for all to access.
Not too many people will take him up on that offer unless they are out of state and want to find a decent area, but have little time to explore. In those cases, they will probably not even return that often. No big deal. It is way better than broadcasting the locations on YouTube for all to access.
