Fly Fishing

I was spin fishing one day and came across a gentleman casting a dry fly, he mesmerized me. I sat down on the bank watched . After a while he said " how's the fishing ? " It's ok I told him. If you get a fishing rod ,you would do better. I have one . I seen him a few more times and he talked fly fishing. Saw a fly out fit while at a shop and bought it. Went back to the creek for 2 weeks until I met him again. Said I have a fishing rod now what ? Can't use it . He put his down and spent the rest of day teaching me to use a fly rod and 2 more times after that would of been more but he passed suddenly. The advice he told me was " if your fishing and having trouble , be polite and ask anyone with a fly rod,they will be glad to help. " I have been doing this for 50 years, and not one time been refused. I could feel a fly box or 2 up with flies given to me when I ask what are you doing I'm not. You fish any way you want with a fly rod . Fly fishing to me is the way fly fisherman are willing to help and share their knowledge for the sport they love.

I liked that story. It reminded me of starting out fly fishing.
I was taught to cast, tie flies, and fish by my Dad. But he was working and I'd fish with a retired neighbor. I'd also fish by myself. If I encountered another fly fisherman (rare) they'd offer help and/or flies. It helps it's a rural area and everybody knows everybody (it was "oh you're so and so's kid, or so and so's grandkid") well it was that way then anyway. Now the out-of-towners show up.
I don't know if it's the times or what nowdays, but that doesn't seem like the culture anymore. Or, most likely, it's probably because I'm an old curmudgeon.
 
My dry fly leader is 20’ long LOL
 
I will use all manner of flies, even to include the obnoxious stuff such as eggs, mops, and squirmy worms. What I won't do is use a sponge fly where I'm essentially tearing off pieces of sponge to attach to a bare hook

If I recall correctly, you have a piece of sponge. 😄 🤣 😂 😆 . Use it when no one's looking? 😄


 
Are you making a point or just bragging? :p
Making a point… old rules with the 18’ leader didn’t factor in long leader dry fly presentation. Which is ironic because that rule probably came from a dry fly “purist” who figured everyone fishing a leader over 18’ is throwing a mono rig.
 
My apologies for any confusion on my part. My post was not meant as a call out or disagreement. I just saw the thread going in a direction nobody, that I saw, intended It to go.

to answer your question, if the WB with a prop was carried to the target by the weight of the line then it’s fly fishing. If the weight of the WB and prop carried the line out then it’s not fly fishing.
Does this mean you can't Euro nymph on fly fishing only?
 
^ I guess fishing streamers with more mass than the fly line isn’t fly fishing either according to that rule set. There isn’t that many streams that are FFO in the state for that to even matter to most anglers. If you’re fishing artificial flies tied with thread and a fly rod/ reel in a FFO, you’re safe.
 
Does this mean you can't Euro nymph on fly fishing only?

If Tenkara passes muster with PFBC Law Enforcement on FFO:


Euro-nyphing is fine regardless of what the "purists" think... ;)
 
Making a point… old rules with the 18’ leader didn’t factor in long leader dry fly presentation. Which is ironic because that rule probably came from a dry fly “purist” who figured everyone fishing a leader over 18’ is throwing a mono rig.
First, that was a joke. Size matters. Second, dome people use unnecessarily long leaders. If it gives you confidence, go for it. There are two or three waters in this state big enough to make a 20 ft leader effective if not practical. To each their own. Lastly, I think this was also a way to make center pinning not clearly not flyfishing. Although the argument has been made ad nauseum.
 
Does this mean you can't Euro nymph on fly fishing only?
I can only tell you what fly fishing is, not how others or the PFBC choose to define or interpret it for their limited and desired purpose. So again, if the fly is carried to the target by the line it’s fly fishing, if the fly carries the line out it’s not. you can now apply those two simple parameters to any scenario or what-if you can conjure up.
 
The ancient tradition of fly fishing is wet fly fishing.

It was wet fly fishing only for many centuries.

Dry flies, nymphs, and streamers all came much later.
In Britannia.
Englishman Frederic M. Halford, aka Detached Badger, published "Floating Flies and How to Dress Them" in 1886. He is rightly credited with perfecting the modern version of upstream dry fly fishing. Note that this was made possible only after the refinement of split cane (bamboo) fly rods. Prior to split cane, fly rods specifically and fishing rods in general were largely incapable of casting.

Meanwhile, the dry fly, fished from short rod with a length of line (probably horse tail hair) is first described by Claudius Aelianus, known to modern scholars (and presumably his fishing buddies) as Aelian, in his work "On the Nature of Animals," which dates to roughly the Year of Our Lord 200.

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Aelian wrote:

I have heard and can tell of a way of catching fish in Macedonia, and it is this. Between Beroea and Thessalonica there flows a river called the Astraeus. Now there are in it fishes of a speckled hue, but what the natives call them, it is better to enquire of the Macedonians. Now these fish feed upon the flies of the country which flit about the river and which are quite unlike flies elsewhere; they do not look like wasps, nor could one fairly describe this creature as comparable in shape with what are called Anthēdones {bumble-bees}, nor even with actual honey-bees, although they possess a distinctive feature of each of the aforesaid insects. Thus, they have the audacity of the fly; you might say they are the size of a bumble-bee, but their colour imitates that of a wasp, and they buzz like a honeybee. All the natives call them Hippūrus [Kennedy adds a translation here for PaFF readers, “soldier flies”]. These flies settle on the stream and seek the food that they like; they cannot however escape the observation of the fishes that swim below. So when a fish observes a Hippurus on the surface it swims up noiselessly under water for fear of disturbing the surface and to avoid scaring its prey. Then when close at hand in the fly's shadow it opens its jaws and swallows the fly, just as a wolf snatches a sheep from the flock, or as an eagle seizes a goose from the farmyard. Having done this it plunges beneath the ripple. Now although fishermen know of these happenings, they do not in fact make any use of these flies as baits for fish, because if the human hand touches them it destroys the natural bloom; their wings wither and the fish refuse to eat them, and for that reason will not go near them, because by some mysterious instinct they detest flies that have been caught. And so with the skill of anglers the men circumvent the fish by the following artful contrivance. They wrap the hook in scarlet wool, and to the wool they attach two feathers that grow beneath a cock's wattles and are the colour of wax. The fishing-rod is six feet long, and so is the line. So they let down this lure, and the fish attracted and excited by the colour, comes to meet it, and fancying from the beauty of the sight that he is going to have a wonderful banquet, opens wide his mouth, is entangled with the hook, and gains a bitter feast, for he is caught. (original Greek at: https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Ael.+NA+15.1)
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The use of wool in modern fly tying would be athematic to the construction of a dry fly, however in AD 200, the natural lanolin would likely still be part of woolen yarn. Being a natural animal oil, it would result in a floating fly. I mention this because in some fly fishing nerd circles, the use of wool precludes the Macedonian soldier fly pattern from being a dry fly. The description of technique always struck me as evidence enough that the fly is a floater (dry), but, like I say, wool body material has suggested to some a sinking (wet) fly. Technique and lanolin, in my mind, make it dry fly, but we'll never know for sure.

The Claudius Aelianus description likely recounts a fishing technique that had been in use for quite some time prior to AD 200 in ancient Macedonia, and there's every reason to believe these same anglers used sinking flies (and, of course, bait) when the fish were not rising for soldier flies.

Also, there's every reason to believe that fly fishing, as described by Aelian, was practiced by rod anglers far and wide throughout the ancient world.

Clearly Aelian did not "invent" fly fishing, nor was he writing about the latest fishing fad for a Macedonian version of Modern Angler Magazine. He was simply writing down what was common practice in his day. Similarly, my contention is that dry fly fishing did not go away in the centuries between 200 and Mr. Halford's 1886 work on floating flies.

On the subject of the preference for upstream fishing (in all instances) when using a fly, it is correct to say this was something strongly advocated by Mr. Halford. As he aged, he became increasingly convinced that dry flies cast upstream was the only true form of fly fishing. (I exaggerate a bit, but only a bit. There was an article in Forbes several years back in which the writer said of Halford's dry fly commandments: "Halford turned that method into a sort of cult with himself as high priest, dispensing not only revolutionary technical information on the dressing and employment of dry flies but also a body of on-stream etiquette that is still adhered to today on the Test and, to one degree of purity or another, on many of the other chalk streams as well."

Our sport is endlessly fascinating, and because so many of us are fishing nerds, there's a lot of writing about fishing history, opinion and combinations thereof, there's a lot to do during the off season.
 
I can only tell you what fly fishing is, not how others or the PFBC choose to define or interpret it for their limited and desired purpose. So again, if the fly is carried to the target by the line it’s fly fishing, if the fly carries the line out it’s not. you can now apply those two simple parameters to any scenario or what-if you can conjure up.
It really doesn't matter to me one way or another. It's a haha moment that's all. Just think the euro fly fishing championships are not fly fishing, just fishing championships.LOL Many things make you stop and think.
 
Interesting that this thread is approaching six pages and doesn't appear to have strayed too far from stashe's original topic. (I still think using the weight of the line instead of the weight of the lure generically defines flyfishing, but others' hopes and dreams may vary.)
 
The ancient tradition of fly fishing is wet fly fishing.

It was wet fly fishing only for many centuries.
Yes, back in the Izaak Walton and Charles Cotton days. They even had a gorgeous stone Fishing House on the Dove River in England. I read about the early days of fly fishing in the 1972 book, Trout Fishing by Joe Brooks.

I wonder what this book might worth these days? It was one of my very first fly fishing books.
 
First, that was a joke. Size matters. Second, dome people use unnecessarily long leaders. If it gives you confidence, go for it. There are two or three waters in this state big enough to make a 20 ft leader effective if not practical. To each their own. Lastly, I think this was also a way to make center pinning not clearly not flyfishing. Although the argument has been made ad nauseum.
A leader that gives you the most delicate and drag free presentation possible typically occurs with leaders that are very long (as long as you can cast effectively). Spacing between your fly and fly line is important for spooking fish. I have been fishing a formula from world champion angler Pablo Castro and other than tiny little Brooke streams i haven't looked back. 20 ft is just 2x my rod length but yes, to each their own… fish what makes you confident
 
It really doesn't matter to me one way or another. It's a haha moment that's all. Just think the euro fly fishing championships are not fly fishing, just fishing championships.LOL Many things make you stop and think.
Same here as far as mattering. I don’t even know how euro fly fishing championships are fished so I couldn’t say if it’s fly fishing or not. I lean towards not if it’s simply dunking a heavy fly off the end of a long rod. I couldn’t think less of fishing tournaments so my opinion may be a little jaded.
 
This. If the weight of your line is carrying the fly/lure/bait to the fish you are fly fishing. If the weight of your fly/lure/bait is carrying out your line then you are not fly fishing. So if your using a fly rod to lob a gob of night crawlers you are not fly fishing. Merely using a fly rod is not by itself the definition of fly fishing.
My brother uses a fly rod and traditionally casts to get his hook out 50 or so feet. On that hook is a small mealy worm grub as he goes after trout stocked in a small lake. Is he fly-fishing? I think he is.
 
On a wall in the area where I tie flies I have 2 full cards of the "Duty's" Montoursville made versions of No. 3 rigs I bought back in the early 90's at Nestor's in Allentown.

Also hanging on the wall in the same area is a 8 x 10 color photo of a night crawler on a hook... ;)

I was always fascinated with the "men" I'd see bait fishing with fly rods when I was a kid but I was such a snobby horse's a$$ when I first started fly fishing I would NEVER dare give it a whirl.

A couple of years ago I bought a Shakespeare 1390 Wonderod and a bunch of Shakespeare Tru-Art automatic reels with the intention of emulating those guys I used to see back then but I want to use worms or salmon eggs instead...

If I use a real cicada or a June bug on a hook with that rig would that be considered fly fishing??? :cool:
In my opinion, yes.
 
Yes, that is the definition to comply with the special regulation area, but the more open ended question is 'what is fly-fishing? I posit that all the equipment in that regulation is fly fishing, but if I take that same equipment and attach a live grub in place of that fly and go to an unregulated part of the stream, I think I am still fly fishing. I'm not using bait casting equipment , and I'm not spinner fishing. What else would you call it? If you are an observer in a parking lot, what would you think the angler was doing?
 
Yes, that is the definition to comply with the special regulation area, but the more open ended question is 'what is fly-fishing? I posit that all the equipment in that regulation is fly fishing, but if I take that same equipment and attach a live grub in place of that fly and go to an unregulated part of the stream, I think I am still fly fishing. I'm not using bait casting equipment , and I'm not spinner fishing. What else would you call it? If you are an observer in a parking lot, what would you think the angler was doing?
I like your answer and agree. But being devils advocate here, what would fishing with a fly be? That is a wet fly on a spinning rod with a bobber.

Is there a difference between fly fishing and fishing with a fly? It seems that the former (equipment based) is the most widely held concept. The latter is contingent on what is used as a "lure".

Alot of nuance here.
 
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