Finding wild browns in western PA?

[steveo27]

With all his talk of wild brown trout lately, I wanted to ask this question...

Ive got the native brookie thing figured out pretty well. Still struggling with finding wild brown trout though. The few I have caught have been accidental while fishing for brookies save for a few outings to a certain class A stream in Lawrence Co (are we allowed to talk about this stream yet?)

Ive never specifically targeted wild browns other than the aforementioned times. I would like to start though.

Im looking for tips on how to find streams with populations of wild browns, especially is southwestern PA.

Information I've come up with so far -

- Lower gradient than brookie streams.
- Brown trout stocked stream or tributary to stocked stream.

And thats about it.

I know about the natural reproduction maps, the info the PFBC publishes, and the wildtroutstreams website.

What other factors should I be looking for when researching streams that could potentially hold wild browns? Any key features to look for?

Thanks

 

[Fishidiot]

You're on the right track. I'm not a western PA guy so maybe some folks better in the know than I will chime in.

In particular, I'd start my exploration with stocked streams (doesn't matter what species of trout are stocked). The upper reaches of the stocked sections or well above those sections in the headwaters (if there is public access) would be good places to look.
Also, chat up some locals who fish those streams for stocked fish. ask 'em if they ever catch wild trout, (or "little pretty trout too small to keep"). Oftentimes a friendly conversation with some local spin or bass fishermen can reveal good intel on wild trout.

And of course, the further eastward you travel into more mountainous terrain, the better the odds and the easier it is to find such streams.

 

[Acristickid]

I used the Landis, Meck's, Sanja and Armstrongs guide books. In addition, have used the biologists reports and wild trout streams list

I spent years fishing streams in the Laurel Highlands , following dirt roads and advice from my fishing network of friends. Look over some TU sites. Some university and watershed associations may help.

Love finding and fishing new water. Think most of all its putting in time. Good luck.

 

[steveo27]

Thanks for the advice guys. I really do love scouring the internet for bio reports, lists, and any other I can find.

acristickid wrote:

I spent years fishing streams in the Laurel Highlands

The majority of my time is spent in the Laurel Highlands fishing for brookies. Ive successfully found them in all of the streams Ive explored so far, however Ive only caught wild browns in 2 of those streams.

I see all these pictures of people chasing wild brown no the other side of the state and I dream of being able to do that here. Brook trout, relatively speaking, are easy to catch. Im looking to challenge myself a bit more.

 

[Swattie87]

steveo27 wrote:
a certain class A stream in Lawrence Co (are we allowed to talk about this stream yet?)

Only if you ask the Devil his permission first. ;-)

There's a handful of wild Brown streams in SW PA popping up in response to PFBC surveys in recent years. One in particular in a VERY urban and surprising setting. Hint: As urban as you can get in SW PA. Given the wild Brown presence of this stream, I suspect a lot of SW PA is still unsurveyed by the PFBC. My prediction is you will start to see some more nat repro streams popping up in this area…and they will be Browns, not Brookies. I think there’s a lot of streams out that way that are just plain dead in terms of Trout…too much legacy mining and pollution. But there are others that are just fine with good, clean water. The advice to look into the headwaters of the smaller stocked streams is probably a good place to start. If you are willing to drive, once you get down off the Allegheny Front…take the Turnpike through the Allegheny Tunnel and get off at the next exit (Bedford), you’ll start to run into wild Browns too.

 

[steveo27]

Id love to start exploring out around Bedford, and I do plan on doing that once the weather breaks.

I was specifically asking about western PA as I am looking for locations I can get to after work during the week. There is one watershed that has a few streams on this list - http://fishandboat.com/wild-trout-designations-step1.htm that Id like to explore in Butler Co.

Im afraid there are a lot of streams that are dead like you mentioned though. The ones that arent support put and take trout but no production. If thet do support it, I'm sure its in very low numbers.

As for the stream you mentioned, I cannot place it.

 

[turkey]

I usually get my fix at one of the local stocker DHALO sections and when I have time I take a drive for wild fish, browns or otherwise.

 

[Swattie87]

steveo27 wrote:
As for the stream you mentioned, I cannot place it.

Fortunately the PFBC does, on their natural reproduction list. Look for the most urban county in SW PA...there's really only 1 reasonable possibility of what this could be. Once you've found that, you'll note only 2 streams on the list...shouldn't be hard to narrow down from there seeing as one of them is a river that flows in between a convention center and 2 large professional sports stadiums. Once you've got it down to the specific stream, Google Maps is your friend and a little internet research will reveal the treasure at the end of your search.

I think there's enough above to solve the riddle, but if not PM me.

 

[steveo27]

Hmm. I did see that stream and never thought twice about it because of the location.

 

[dryflyguy]

As for that "secret" wild trout stream in lawrence county - the fishing there has really seemed to go downhill there lately.

We who live in SW PA have it pretty tough when it comes to wild trout streams. That's why most of my fishing trips usually involve at least a 2-3 hour drive, with an overnight stay.
When I can only fish one day, I'm usually torn between spending half the day driving to get on some WT water.
Or just staying closer to home, and settling for stocked fish.
The yough river really isn't a bad alternative though. I've been catching some nice size holdovers - browns and rainbows - up to 16" long. That are nicely colored, and quite healthy. Fishing that's not too bad to settle for IMO

 

[LetortAngler]

Also being from the Pittsburgh area I'll second this ^^^
The limestone belt really starts influencing streams around Bedford county, which I personally don't consider Southwest PA, but that's where I'd start and head east. Some streams like Loyalhanna, The Yough, Laurel Hill are all decent stocked streams that have holdover Browns (most years).. If you like fishing smaller streams, the tribs of the Yough and Loyalhanna are worth checking out, but wild Browns are few and far.

 

[turkey]

dryflyguy wrote:
As for that "secret" wild trout stream in lawrence county - the fishing there has really seemed to go downhill there lately.

Every time I'm there, which is once a year sometimes less, there is always someone else fishing it the other direction. Not complaining it just is what it is. Its not worth the drive, hike in, only to find its been recently fished over. For the record the other guy is probably thinking "damn it" when he sees me too. I get it. Anymore I'd rather head east-ish when time permits.

 

[steveo27]

Ive only ever bumped into someone on that stream once, and it was the Sunday before deer season this year.

Thanks for the other info guys. In an hour, I can been almost anywhere in the Laurel Highlands. About an hour and a half puts me in the southern tip of Allegheny National Forest.

Laurel Hill, the Yough, and Loyalhanna are all about an hours drive as well. Ive fished all of them with some success over the years.

Im in the northern tip of Westmoreland Co, so Butler, Armstrong, eastern Allegheny, and northern Westmoreland Co are kinda the limits for weekday trips.

I may have to just spend a lot of time exploring headwaters and tributaries to local stocked streams once the weather breaks.

 

[pcray1231]

While much of SW PA has a history of coal mining, the main problem there is one of geology. There are water chemistry issues, natural and man-made but that's not the main problem. Mainly, it's temperature. Bedrock is shallow with often very little overburden, and mainly it's shale/slate that even lacks much in the way of cracks for water to penetrate. As a result, true groundwater sources are hard to come by. Flows are boom/bust even by freestoner standards. And any stream large enough to flow year round gets too warm.

The handful of unicorns are typically found in steeper sections of big stream/river created canyons. Your Lawrence County class A is such an example. There are a couple in Armstrong County as well that come down the river hill, though I don't think they're as good as that one that's the home of the devil. These streams cut vertically through enough layers of slate/shale quickly enough that even though the groundwater sources are very small, they are also concentrated to a small length of stream, and as such keep it cool enough.

Anyway, things change as you get down into the Laurel Highlands, obviously. But there the issue is water chemistry, and while most streams likely have a few browns, it's mostly brookies and even rainbows.

The other area of western PA is north. East of the Allegheny, in the western side of the national forest, is kinda like the Laurel Highlands. It's mostly brookies, but most of those have the odd brown trout thrown in for good measure.

West of the Allegheny, though, things change. The land is flatter, the soil and thus water chemistry richer. We're talking about the Oil Creek/Brokenstraw drainages and that general vicinity. Venango/Crawford/western Warren, etc. Lots of brown trout streams in there, several of them class A, others not.

Or, as many have said, go east beyond the Allegheny Front, get yourself into the ridge and valley region, and brown trout streams abound. Mostly the mountain streams are brookies and the valley streams are browns. There are of course exceptions to that rule, but even when ignoring limestoners and talking purely freestoners, if it comes out of the mountains, it's typical to have brookies up in the steep part and then switchover to browns when it hits the valley.

 

[JackM]

I would suggest that in the SW region at least, brown trout are simply out-competed by the brookies. I would say about every stream in this region has had ample opportunities over the last 60 years even to establish a reproducing brown trout population.

Thus where they might thrive and impinge on brook trout would be the areas where pH is higher and the waters are bigger than a cart-path.

 

[PennKev]

Just go out and start trying any streams you think might have wild fish in them. There is no substitute for doing that.The natural repro list is a good starting point but is missing a large number of streams, particularly in this part of the state. Just as often as not, I've found wild browns in unlisted streams. Off the top of my head I've gotten wild browns out of three other streams that are only a short distance from Hell Run, and have a couple others I suspect would turn up trout if I could figure out safe and legal access to them. Now, I'm not finding hidden class A streams, but I'm finding wild trout.

Kev

 

[steveo27]

Again, thanks for the advice guys. Really appreciate it.

Kev, I wish I had more time to explore or I would. Im just trying to narrow down some options so when I do have the time, I can put it to good use. When you are looking for new streams that potentially have wild browns in it, what do you look for? Any tips or secrets you'd like to share?

Also, sent you a PM as well.

Cheers

 

[salmonoid]

Find a stream that is connected to an ATW (er, Stocked Water). If it has fish habitat and maintains a cool enough flow through part of the summer, some stockers will abandon their home waters (but not the HomeWaters) and take up refuge there. If they make it through the summer, their biological instinct will eventually overpower their stocker minds and they will reproduce. Find streams with temperature and habitat and you will find wild fish.

 

[Maurice]

SWPA Greene, Washington counties are absent of wild trout. Allegheny, like one stream, and a trib...Westmoreland and Fayette, gets a little better but poor. The farther you go from that corner of the state, the better it gets. Its not only bad for trout but also for bugs. (macroinvertibrates). Its a sick joke on a flyfisherman.

I hightailed it outta that region when I had the chance. Its not a very trouty place for a flyfisherman.

Sell the house, sell the kids, sell the wife, move east. :-D

 

[dryflyguy]

Adding to Maurice's tongue in cheek last sentence - or is it? - would be leaving the rest of the family, and quitting one's job.
For me - my wife would probably have no problem moving on. But I would certainly miss the rest of my family - both sides.
And work. I've got a good job, where I really don't mind going to work everyday. And with only about 5 years to go until retirement, it would be pretty hard to start over again now.
Would it be worth it for me to up root now just to be closer to wild trout? I don't think so.
And I make do the best I can (5 weeks vacation certainly helps things a lot)