Euro troubles

ntallen

ntallen

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Joined
Jun 17, 2022
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13
Location
Lancaster, PA
Over the past couple springs I’ve been working hard to understand euro nymphing. I started off with some strong beginner’s luck & felt very connected to my flies at the bottom of my drifts, anymore I’m half clueless, half connected. I think part of my difficulty is in determining how much tippet length I should let sink, another part of my difficulty is in determining the amount of tension that I need to hold in order to make an effective drift. I realize that it is usually effective to kind of slip into and out of tension throughout a drift, especially in the presence of uneven currents.

I spent the day fishing euro yesterday on spring creek & found myself frequently late to sets and thus missing fish that had struck my flies. I usually use a very heavy fly whenever I’m feeling blind, like 3.3(+) mm bead. Once I get stuck on the bottom a bunch, I’ll swap out for lighter nymphs.

Sometimes I’m unsure as to what length of tippet to allow to sink, and how much to motivate my drift ahead in the current. Most often, I’ll use 4-6’ of tippet below my sighter. I usually try to achieve a length that allows my sighter to be just off the surface or exactly at the surface of the water. I’ll tuck cast into the lane I want, and I’ll give a good second or two for my flies to descend before leading the drift.

I’m unsure if maybe I’m suffering from using too fine of a mono leader or even too fine of tippet; where I suffer from the influence of eddies/currents throughout my drift. I’ve attempted to use “micro” and “thin” mono leaders, I’ve attempted to buff up my euro leaders as well. I seem to have a bit more grace with the slightly thicker leaders at times.

Otherwise, I’ve suspected that I may have erred on the side of using sighter that was too fine, as well. Does anyone have any pointers for an angler feeling blind about his drifts? I seem to alternate between feeling entirely blind to my drifts or setting halfway through every drift whenever I graze bottom. This happens even after I adjust for more weight/more sink time at the start of my drifts. Beyond this, I remember I used to kill it naked nymphing on a conventional leader, and I just feel quite disconnected from what it is that my sighter is telling me, anymore.
 
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It sounds like you rigging and approach are both good, it just takes time to get the hang of it.

You may want to use a heavier mono leader and ditch the micro and thin leaders as a start to help.

I suggest you check out the "Troutbitten" site for an unbelievable amount of info on tightline nymphing.

The Troutbitten guys are from the State College area and really have some great tips that relate to PA trout fishing and there are articles, YouTube videos, and a podcast to check out.

Their approach is more of a hybrid method since they apply things taught by George Harvey and Joe Humphreys.

The same can be said for George Daniel who can be a great resource to use to improve your game.

Keep with it and good luck.
 
Also, using 4-6 feet of tippet off the sighter might be too long when fishing a heavy anchor fly, especially on Spring Creek. Based on the description, it seems like the rig settled into the zone, but there was a lack of control during the drift. My most productive change when tightlining is shortening (within reason) the length of tippet off the sighter. I often will have 24-30 inches from the sighter to the bottom fly when fishing riffled sections on a stream like Spring Creek. I feel that this allows for more control. It’s worked for me.

Just keep changing and dial it in.
 
Also, using 4-6 feet of tippet off the sighter might be too long when fishing a heavy anchor fly, especially on Spring Creek. Based on the description, it seems like the rig settled into the zone, but there was a lack of control during the drift. My most productive change when tightlining is shortening (within reason) the length of tippet off the sighter. I often will have 24-30 inches from the sighter to the bottom fly when fishing riffled sections on a stream like Spring Creek. I feel that this allows for more control. It’s worked for me.

Just keep changing and dial it in.
I’ll definitely give this a shot. I think that I’ve almost always erred on the side of longer tippet to try to find more control, despite that not really making much sense.
 
It sounds like you rigging and approach are both good, it just takes time to get the hang of it.

You may want to use a heavier mono leader and ditch the micro and thin leaders as a start to help.

I suggest you check out the "Troutbitten" site for an unbelievable amount of info on tightline nymphing.

The Troutbitten guys are from the State College area and really have some great tips that relate to PA trout fishing and there are articles, YouTube videos, and a podcast to check out.

Their approach is more of a hybrid method since they apply things taught by George Harvey and Joe Humphreys.

The same can be said for George Daniel who can be a great resource to use to improve your game.

Keep with it and good luck.
I’ve definitely neglected to read enough of the write ups on troutbitten. Thank you for the feedback. I’m gonna try the standard mono rig today to see how that feels under my rod.
 
Good advice above.

Often, no one thing will work for your specific approach, but on a shallower creek like Spring with a heavy bug, check the angle of your line coming from the rod. If you are hanging up and you are at a 45 degree angle or more, not only are you too heavy, but your tippet is too long for the water you're fishing.

I don't use the really short length like Nittany described, but it makes total sense to try on Spring until you get comfortable with the sighter not necessarily having to be near the water to know where you're at.

AND it speaks to the idea of what works for him or George and Domenic may not totally work for you. For me, I can go from 6 foot holes to 8 inch riffles without changing tippet length, but then it's all about angles and knowing how deep you are by sight and a little sixth sense/experience. You might even be able to fish a 4.6mm tungsten bead through 8 inches of water with the right angle and possibly doing a little leading of the heavy bug. Not recommended, of course.

One hack with getting comfortable with small bugs w/o losing the feel, is go smaller with tippet to retain the feel you've grown comfortable with until you start to get a sense about where your bugs are based on sight and angle of the line and speed of the drift (and 20 other things that just come with time).

Give yourself some grace too. This time of year, fish are often close to the bottom unless a hatch is happening AND the takes are going to be way more subtle than they will be in a few short weeks.

Perhaps the early beginner's luck was during times when fish were actively eating?
 
I‘ve helped a bunch of people get started with this euro style and find the biggest problem early on is not keeping your rod out ahead of your drift. If using a sighter so many get mesmerized watching it rather than paying attn to where your rod is. Remember the rod movement in the drift is what keeps you tight to your flies regardless really of how long your leader/tippet is. Also when just getting started I always go with added weight rather than weighted flies. And reasons, while all may not agree, weighted flies drift differently than non-weighted. You can also quickly pinch a pc on or take it off quickly when fishing different water depths and lastly it’s helpful when just starting out to be a bit heavier than you would be by just weight of your weighted flies alone. When adding weight when fishing a brace of 3 flies I always put it between fly 1 and 2 from your sighter not from your anchor. Hope this helps Stanley
 
I‘ve helped a bunch of people get started with this euro style and find the biggest problem early on is not keeping your rod out ahead of your drift. If using a sighter so many get mesmerized watching it rather than paying attn to where your rod is. Remember the rod movement in the drift is what keeps you tight to your flies regardless really of how long your leader/tippet is. Also when just getting started I always go with added weight rather than weighted flies. And reasons, while all may not agree, weighted flies drift differently than non-weighted. You can also quickly pinch a pc on or take it off quickly when fishing different water depths and lastly it’s helpful when just starting out to be a bit heavier than you would be by just weight of your weighted flies alone. When adding weight when fishing a brace of 3 flies I always put it between fly 1 and 2 from your sighter not from your anchor. Hope this helps Stanley
Good post above.

I agree, but you may make the Euro guys heads explode when you talk about adding split-shot to their rig.

I feel no obligation to follow comp rules and not add weight to my rig and having to tie in a "Euro" line after two rod lengths.
 
Good post above.

I agree, but you may make the Euro guys heads explode when you talk about adding split-shot to their rig.

I feel no obligation to follow comp rules and not add weight to my rig and having to tie in a "Euro" line after two rod lengths.
Three flies, split shot? That ain't euro nymphing 😁 Thanks for pointing this out!

I do appreciate that advice about keeping it simple and not following rules if they don't work for you, however. And it is easier to tightline to start with weight, but euro is not (or not just) tightline nymphing.
 
Yeah, it's doing it while wearing funny clothes and speaking in ridiculous accents....

Sorry, I have nothing important to add. I'm just a dirty low-life bobber fisherman. 😢

Devin Olsen says it's okay to wear these if you wear shorts over the more revealing areas. They come in brown trout and rainbow too, but those are very unpopular on this site.....

1709858247478
 
Three flies, split shot? That ain't euro nymphing 😁 Thanks for pointing this out!

I do appreciate that advice about keeping it simple and not following rules if they don't work for you, however. And it is easier to tightline to start with weight, but euro is not (or not just) tightline nymphing.
I’ve fished euro style since before it became popular, when I fished with a guy from Poland out in MT, as well as reading numerous books and untold articles. I’d have to say everyone of those expressed #1 rule is tight from line to flies and if you aren’t you’re missing fish. The speed that a fish can inhale your offering and determine where it’s food or not is mind boggling. So while I can agree that you can alter a lot of things fishing euro one that you can’t is being tight.
 
Over the past couple springs I’ve been working hard to understand euro nymphing. I started off with some strong beginner’s luck & felt very connected to my flies at the bottom of my drifts, anymore I’m half clueless, half connected. I think part of my difficulty is in determining how much tippet length I should let sink, another part of my difficulty is in determining the amount of tension that I need to hold in order to make an effective drift. I realize that it is usually effective to kind of slip into and out of tension throughout a drift, especially in the presence of uneven currents.

I spent the day fishing euro yesterday on spring creek & found myself frequently late to sets and thus missing fish that had struck my flies. I usually use a very heavy fly whenever I’m feeling blind, like 3.3(+) mm bead. Once I get stuck on the bottom a bunch, I’ll swap out for lighter nymphs.

Sometimes I’m unsure as to what length of tippet to allow to sink, and how much to motivate my drift ahead in the current. Most often, I’ll use 4-6’ of tippet below my sighter. I usually try to achieve a length that allows my sighter to be just off the surface or exactly at the surface of the water. I’ll tuck cast into the lane I want, and I’ll give a good second or two for my flies to descend before leading the drift.

I’m unsure if maybe I’m suffering from using too fine of a mono leader or even too fine of tippet; where I suffer from the influence of eddies/currents throughout my drift. I’ve attempted to use “micro” and “thin” mono leaders, I’ve attempted to buff up my euro leaders as well. I seem to have a bit more grace with the slightly thicker leaders at times.

Otherwise, I’ve suspected that I may have erred on the side of using sighter that was too fine, as well. Does anyone have any pointers for an angler feeling blind about his drifts? I seem to alternate between feeling entirely blind to my drifts or setting halfway through every drift whenever I graze bottom. This happens even after I adjust for more weight/more sink time at the start of my drifts. Beyond this, I remember I used to kill it naked nymphing on a conventional leader, and I just feel quite disconnected from what it is that my sighter is telling me, anymore.
I, too, am a fly fisher working on my Euro game. I'd suggest using shorter clear mono tippet. I have like 2 ft or more. My bi-colored sighter line in in the water. My sighter is 1X Rio. I also tie little nail knots with tags out of 12 lb fluorescent Amnesia. It helps me gage my depth. I use many meters of t12 lb Amnesia as my line behind my 1X sighter, which is many feet long. I haven't found the Euro game to be as productive as I'd hoped or have seen. I don't do THAT much better than my old-school regular bobber-float nymphing with fly line. However, I wasn't whole-hog in on it before. Now I am. I have spent time tying exact Euro nymph flies, the same stuff I see people using on Youtube. I was previously using drop-shot nymphing instead of having a 'sacrificial' anchor fly. It's what Dave Rothrock was doing. (just as an aside, not to your question, but I attached 2 micro rings to make rigging and changing rigging easier. I didn't like all the chopping and re-tying on knot tag ends. I have 1 micro ring at the sighter/tippet junction. THen I have one at the bottom where I tie maybe 6-8 inches of final tippet to the fly. I tie a 2nd fly off that ring as well if I want, or a small split shot for deeper presentation. It presents an egg fly really well for Erie steelhead creeks. The point being that I can rig right off the ring, longer, shorter, 1 line or with a dropper. If it's wrong , it CANNOT be terribly wrong.)
So that's where I am, on the journey with you. I didn't think after 35 years of fly fishing, I'd be so befuddled by fly fishing. And really, it's more like cane-poling; closer to tenkara than what I've always known as flyfishing. But it works. So I'm in, I guess.
Syl.
 
When I was much younger all I had was an old Wonderod fly rod - I fished everything with that including meal worms, maggots, and minnows. It was basically tight-lining with bait. Now I fish my "Euro rig" the same as I did with fly rod and bait a million years ago. If you ever fished bait on a fly rod just Euro nymph the same way. Of course the fish would hold on to bait longer than a fly but I think the idea of drift, lead, etc is similar, at least to me.
 
I’ve fished euro style since before it became popular, when I fished with a guy from Poland out in MT, as well as reading numerous books and untold articles. I’d have to say everyone of those expressed #1 rule is tight from line to flies and if you aren’t you’re missing fish. The speed that a fish can inhale your offering and determine where it’s food or not is mind boggling. So while I can agree that you can alter a lot of things fishing euro one that you can’t is being tight.
Yes, I totally picked that up from your comments, as I am 54 myself and tightlined NEPA pocket water for a time before the new techniques. What these guys are doing is not relying on feel but sight. If you don't react to a slight pause or that sixth sense I mentioned you are also missing fish. Tight is on a gradient or scale. Heck, you can even float the sighter with some payette paste. It's all euro but it is certainly not all tightline fishing....

I might even venture to say folks are missing the larger fish if they are waiting to feel a hit. And there is a such thing as too tight also, as that would affect a natural drift.
 
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Most Anglers I see are fishing a French style leader with a shorter butt section and thicker sighter material. This is a Great way to get into the euro game because of easy casting and versatility with dry dropper fishing. Downside would be increased sag at distance and using heavier flies. I would definitely start with this thicker shorter leader first. Tippet should be 1 1/2x the depth of the water you are fishing. Most common mistake I see anglers make is casting, most people think euro nymph cast is just lobbing heavy flies…. Couldn’t be further from the truth. Second biggest mistake I see is people fishing way too heavy flies for the water type. People think they need to have a bomb fly that plummets to the deck as soon as their rig hits the water before it reaches the target. Sink rate + length of drift to reach that targeted spot really is learned from experience. As far as tension to your sighter, you want to see the downshift in your flies. Nymphs will slow down once then get deeper and you’ll be able to see that with your sighter…. Sometimes it can look like a strike but it’s just the faster surface current picking up tension to the slow nymphs. You want the sighter to be more vertical with limited sag. But definitely not tight where you are pulling your flies downstream. With learning anything new technique, quantity over quality for strikes. The more strikes you get the faster the learning curve will be. Once you get the cast you can experiment with different leaders/ techniques and see what suits you best. I fish mainly a Spanish style euro leader these days!
 
Had been tight lining for years but definitely upped my game after watching a George Daniels video a couple times. My rig is just a standard (cheap) floating line with a leader made as recommended above. chop down a cheap leader to about four ft., tie in a bright sighter section (20-24") and a tippet ring. Long tippet, usually 4x. I'm amazed that additional weight is rarely need when using a tungsten bead head; even in smaller sizes. (14-16 is my go to) My rod is a 10' no name, 3/4 wt. purchased on the internet. Frugal but effective.
 
Had been tight lining for years but definitely upped my game after watching a George Daniels video a couple times. My rig is just a standard (cheap) floating line with a leader made as recommended above. chop down a cheap leader to about four ft., tie in a bright sighter section (20-24") and a tippet ring. Long tippet, usually 4x. I'm amazed that additional weight is rarely need when using a tungsten bead head; even in smaller sizes. (14-16 is my go to) My rod is a 10' no name, 3/4 wt. purchased on the internet. Frugal but effective.
So are you using the fly line out of the tip of your rod, or not? I have "tight-lined" pocket water a lot by using the fly line out of the tip of my rod. I have crushed fishing doing that. I have just never taken the plunge to going to a full on mono-rig. I have on tied up and on my old Okuma Sierra, though.
 
I think @Jessed further refined a lot of my comments, so I will refrain from weighing in further only to remind the OP that I will never become a better basketball player by watching videos and reading articles.

Time on the water and committing to learning the new skill is priceless, even at the cost of catching fish. I spent a few years without packing a bobber, even in winter when a bobber is your friend. I fished low water, high water, deep water, shallow riffles. And I fished on average 75 or 80 days a year for like 8 years (I would have done that anyway). I also had a great mentor, who happened to go way back with George Daniel. Hit me with a PM if you want to look him up in State College.

I ended the journey with the mono rig in all its iterations, and it's deadly. That said, I am about ready to commit to something else soon or embrace my roots in traditional fly fishing again or chase stripers and muskie? Nothing wrong with watching a bobber twitch or a dry dropper go under, even a nose or two....
 
You can also quickly pinch a pc on or take it off quickly when fishing different water depths and lastly it’s helpful when just starting out to be a bit heavier than you would be by just weight of your weighted flies alone.
What's a pc?
 
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