Euro-nymphing ruining casting

[OldLefty]

Some interesting perspectives here. It would be great to sit around a campfire discussing this issue. I've been "tightlining" since the mid-70's (yes, and even using leaders with "sighters" that long) and for years I scoffed at adding a strike indicator...until I had to gain experience with other techniques.
As for casting, I can remember a time on a WV trout stream when I just couldn't quite reach a particular rising fish and my friend made the comment indirectly relating to my casting.


Now I approach my trouting from a perspective of versatility. I use rods, reels and lines that will give me the most over the broadest range of applications. While my leaders may have butt sections of .018 or .016 and measure over 16' long at times they are designed to turn over a dry. I use the same tackle to fish about anything. I could go on and on.


I will say that I see an unsettling trend among anglers entering the realm of fly fishing: most gravitate to one particular type of fishing or another. The influence of competitive fly fishing is very strong, no doubt. The problem arises when I question some folks very specifically about why they do what they do, why they've chosen a particular rod, line and leader (design, profile, etc., not brand). Much of what I hear in response tells me that they are only regurgitating what they have read or been told. They don't think about how what they do may either benefit or disadvantage them.


When it comes to casting the desire to learn this skill isn't there: not so much because the angler has concluded there is no need to do so; rather, the angler hasn't been exposed to the fact that gaining some casting proficiency may actually benefit them in presenting fly to fish.


I don't claim to know it all - or even very much - but, over the years I analyzed this and that and I have a fair degree of knowledge and insight. Does it take too much on the part of the angler to even think about becoming a better angler? I don't know.


Oh, and by the way, this same trend is being seen in parts of Europe, as well.

 

[ryansheehan]

moon1284 wrote:
I dont think tight line nymphing helps casting. But adding tons of lead and fishing egg patterns doesnt either. If someone wants to nymph that's fine, but I disagree that there are certain times when it's either nymph or catch nothing. When you get good at fishing dries you figure out ways to catch fish on dries every time you fish. I fish dries 80 percent of the time, swing streamers 20 percent of the time, and really only nymph if I grab someone else rod with a nymph rig.

Moon, you mostly fish the the Delaware right? Fishing dries 80 percent of the time only happens to me when I'm up there. The rivers I frequent the most you need to be versatile especially while winter fishing, which I love. For the most part throwing dries in January with 38 degree water might make you a better caster but you won't be landing any fish.

 

[troutbert]

moon1284 wrote:

I fish dries 80 percent of the time, swing streamers 20 percent of the time, and really only nymph if I grab someone else rod with a nymph rig.

One negative aspect of the Euro nymphing trend is that now many people believe that you need a "nymph rig" to fish nymphs.

Before the prevalence of highly specialized "Euro nymphing" gear, people fished nymphs, dries, streamers, wets, all with the same rod, reel, and line. I still fish this way and so do many other flyfishers.

Suppose you got out to a stream and start exploring with a dry fly, but you get no strikes, and you realize that the water is up, a bit cold, and you're not seeing insects, so you'd be better off nymphing.

It can be just as simple as this: Snip off dry fly. Tie on weighted nymph. Fish.

You can fish in the tight line, high sticking style with this set up. And after fishing the water close to you this way, you can start pulling more line off the reel, and extending your drifts.

Then you're getting into the really fun stuff: fishing nymphs with no indicator, and a fair bit of line out.

 

[afishinado]

troutbert wrote:

moon1284 wrote:

I fish dries 80 percent of the time, swing streamers 20 percent of the time, and really only nymph if I grab someone else rod with a nymph rig.

One negative aspect of the Euro nymphing trend is that now many people believe that you need a "nymph rig" to fish nymphs.

Before the prevalence of highly specialized "Euro nymphing" gear, people fished nymphs, dries, streamers, wets, all with the same rod, reel, and line. I still fish this way and so do many other flyfishers.

Suppose you got out to a stream and start exploring with a dry fly, but you get no strikes, and you realize that the water is up, a bit cold, and you're not seeing insects, so you'd be better off nymphing.

It can be just as simple as this: Snip off dry fly. Tie on weighted nymph. Fish.

You can fish in the tight line, high sticking style with this set up. And after fishing the water close to you this way, you can start pulling more line off the reel, and extending your drifts.

Then you're getting into the really fun stuff: fishing nymphs with no indicator, and a fair bit of line out.

No doubt versatility is the key. Most times it takes just changing out your tippet and tying on another fly to switch techniques.

Here
is a past thread about versatility when FFing.

 

[JF_]

troutbert wrote:
quote]
moon1284 wrote:

I fish dries 80 percent of the time, swing streamers 20 percent of the time, and really only nymph if I grab someone else rod with a nymph rig.

One negative aspect of the Euro nymphing trend is that now many people believe that you need a "nymph rig" to fish nymphs.

Before the prevalence of highly specialized "Euro nymphing" gear, people fished nymphs, dries, streamers, wets, all with the same rod, reel, and line. I still fish this way and so do many other flyfishers.

Suppose you got out to a stream and start exploring with a dry fly, but you get no strikes, and you realize that the water is up, a bit cold, and you're not seeing insects, so you'd be better off nymphing.

It can be just as simple as this: Snip off dry fly. Tie on weighted nymph. Fish.

You can fish in the tight line, high sticking style with this set up. And after fishing the water close to you this way, you can start pulling more line off the reel, and extending your drifts.

Then you're getting into the really fun stuff: fishing nymphs with no indicator, and a fair bit of line out. [/quote]



This...........^^^^

 

[moon1284]

I agree that there are a lot of times when there is a better way to fish than using dry flies. I do mostly fish the delaware. I agree that you can use one rod to fish dries, streamers, and nymphs. I dont really have a problem with how other people fish, although centerpinning really annoys me.

My point is if you know what to look for you can fish year round and have a good shot at fish on dries. Will you catch 10 fish in early February using dries - probably not but if you know what to look for and are patient you can probably catch 1 or 2. Confidence has a lot to do with it.

 

[rrt]

I think OL hits it. I, too, use different outfits when fishing different streams. This just happened over a period of many years and realizing that different outfits were more appropriate for different streams. However, when I was financially strapped, I had only two rods: a 7" Fenwick glass rod and an 8 1/2" Fenwick graphite rod. These served me well for many years, and I didn't "really know any better" till I got a little extra money as I got older.

I also do what t/bert does. I might start fishing with one method, but when I have to switch methods, I cut off what I am using and retie with (an)other fly or flies depending on what is going on. (If I had my druthers, I'd fish dry flies, esp to hatches, a lot more.)

Anyhow, though it is nice to have an "arsenal" of rods, you could really get by with only a couple for most fly-fishing situations.

Disclaimer: I really don't even know the particulars of euro-nymphing, probably because I'm a dumb old fart.

My nymphing method didn't produce real well this morning as the water I fished got increasingly muddy and I finally gave up.

 

[rrt]

Actually, those rods were 7' and 8 1/2' rods.

 

[jacob]

One negative aspect of the Euro nymphing trend is that now many people believe that you need a "nymph rig" to fish nymphs. Before the prevalence of highly specialized "Euro nymphing" gear, people fished nymphs, dries, streamers, wets, all with the same rod, reel, and line. I still fish this way and so do many other flyfishers.

This is a really good point. Again things go back to versatility and being well rounded- from what I see nobody argues that point as being key to successful fly fishing.

I honestly think the euro nymphing trend is fairly misunderstood as being a very specialized and a one sided approach / rig. IMO it’s actually one of the most versatile rigs one can fish with minimal adjustments to your baseline rig. Leaps and bounds over your standard 9’ 5wt and tapered leader which is regarded as the all around.

Has anyone watched modern nymphing and/or modern nymphing elevated? Curious, as the second one (modern nymphing elevated) goes pretty deep into the versatility of the system and focuses on a lot of the points that have come up in this thread.

If I was forced to give away all of my rods except for one, I’m probably gonna keep my “specialized euro nymphing gear” because of its versatility.

 

[Nymph-wristed]

As many have noted, I don't see the basic nymphing rig as limiting either. I have about 6 rods in different lengths and weights, but if I leave the parking spot with a 10 foot 4 weight with a floating line, I am good for the day on most creeks. I have also czech nymphed effectively with an 8'6" rod on small creeks, say Valley, again using the feet... As I said above. you can use your feet to cast, in other words wade into position to get your bugs where they need to be. You pick apart larger water because it is easy to resist the urge to cast 50 feet to the prime spot without trying the ones at your feet. I also don't use a really, really long leader. I use the butts of old tapered leaders (maybe cut back to 2X), tie in a couple feet of sighter (often just fluorescent mono), then a tippet ring and then the appropriate length of tippet. You don't need mono to the reel. If you have even 3 or 4 inches of fly line out of the top guide, you are not going to have line issues. I use a long rod, but not a specific euro rod, and I add an indicator right onto the sighter when needed to reach the other bank, for example (Air-locks don't eff up the leader). I have caught fish on the dry fly and the streamer without changing my leader, let alone my spool! I don't care about pretty casts if they are accurate and neither do the fishies...

 

[FarmerDave]

Nymph-wristed wrote:
Well stated, jacob. I am 49, and I think these guys sound like grumpy old men sometimes... The irony is the real old men are quite open, knowledgeable, and welcoming to all regardless of where they are at! I want to be more like them, and we all should.

No you don't. Trust me on that. LOL!

 

[FarmerDave]

I'm seeing a lot of people telling us (me) what we (I) must do, or what we (I) have to do.

That has never sat well with me. This is not prison, and I am not a submissive follower. I don't have to do anything that I don't chose to do. Whether I should or not, is another story.;-)

 

[Nymph-wristed]

Did you ever consider that part of the issue might be that you THINK that others are talking about you or telling you what to do? ;-) :hammer:

 

[FarmerDave]

Nymph-wristed wrote:
Did you ever consider that part of the issue might be that you THINK that others are talking about you or telling you what to do? ;-) :hammer:

Doesn't matter if it was directed at me or not.

It was just about the wording. [d]Nobody[/d] Few like to be bullied.

If you say "we must," my first questions is always going to be ...

Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

Everyone "should" avoid the word "must" in this context.

And I did say it was a pet peeve.

Besides, I did include a winky face. ;-)

No rebuttal.

 

[rrt]

FD's Post 51 is on target. You really don't want to be an old guy before you have to be. Enjoy being young while you are.

 

[FarmerDave]

rrt wrote:
FD's Post 51 is on target. You really don't want to be an old guy before you have to be. Enjoy being young while you are.

LOL, but I think we both knew what he meant and he was right. Be more like you but without the oldness. ;-)

I've gone through stages.

When I was about 40 someone said to me that they wish they were older so that they could retire. I said, I would never say that.

When I hit my 50s, I was saying the same thing. Wishing I was older so that I could retire.

Now that I am in late 50s, I find myself saying every Sunday night that I don't want to go to work anymore, and no reference to age. ;-)

Wife is still saying that she wishes I was older, but I think she has a different agenda. ;-)

 

[gulfgreyhound]

Do the fish know if one is "Euro Nymphing" vs regular old nymphing? Do I need to take lessons?
I may be to old for either? GG

 

[jacob]

I think the trout would say En faire tout un fromage if they heard our conversations about how we want to catch them haha

 

[bigslackwater]

In response to the original post, it sounds like he never really learned to cast (long) so how was it ruined? You can't ruin what was never there. He got in to one style and stuck to it.

I was out fishing with a 25 year old friend the other day and his casting was amazing. For a while I just sat back and watched the tight loops he threw with total precision. I prefer a variety. I'm constantly re-rigging and going from dry flies, to streamers, to nymphs.... High sticking, throwing on bobbers etc... whatever it takes.

To each there own I guess. There is something to be said for dedication to one style of fishing too. Some days I feel like my fly fishing ADD (my obsession with changing it up) can be a hindrance. There are times I tell myself, maybe I should have stuck with streamers, or stayed in that spot that was doing well, or not left that creek for this one an hour away that has no action!!

We all do things a little differently but that's what makes this sport unique.

 

[FarmerDave]

jacob wrote:

I think the trout would say En faire tout un fromage if they heard our conversations about how we want to catch them haha

Explique moi comment on fait un demi fromage.

And yes, I used google translate.

The French are odd and I don't catch French Fish. But cheese is a pretty good bait.

Reminded me of a working trip to Quebec almost 30 years ago. We were out in the middle of nowhere, almost halfway between Montreal and Quebec city.

We were at the hotel bar ordering takeout from a local restaurant and the barmaid's English was just slightly better than my French.

One of my co-workers was very hungry, and discussing with the barmaid on whether to order a chicken sandwich, or a half chicken dinner.

What arrived was a half of a chicken sandwich.

That is no lie.

I have several stories from my time up there, but that is my favorite.