DT or WF?

[KeithS]

I've been fishing warm water streams all summer using a 6WFF line. I've been using Wooly Buggers and Muddler Minnows exclusively. Would there be an advantage to changing to a DT6F, or is it more dependent on my casting ability?

 

[gfen]

They are the exact same line until a WF's rear taper begins. Anything shorter, you will notice no differnece. Anythign longer, WF will "shoot" better.

Roll casting past that is also different. Once the WF rear taper begins, its much harder to turn over the heavy belly. A DT line doesn't have that, its all the same thickness.

 

[gutcutter]

A fly line's taper (or shape) determines how energy is transferred during a cast.
Weight forward tapers have the majority of the weight concentrated in the first 15 feet of the line.
Double taper lines have that weight distributed throughout the first 30 feet of line.
They are not the same.
Although some claim that there is no difference between the two, others dispute that.
In general:
WF enthusiasts claim that their taper is good at both short and long casts - 20-80 feet.
DT folks claim that their taper is more accurate at short to medium casts - 20-50 feet.
Cast both at your local fly shop and make up your own mind which suites your style, then buy it from them.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

gutcutter wrote:
Weight forward tapers have the majority of the weight concentrated in the first 15 feet of the line.
Double taper lines have that weight distributed throughout the first 30 feet of line.

Not true, and here's proof:

http://buy.scientificanglers.com/charts

 

[Lonewolve]

Keith,
what water and how you want to fish may determine what line you would like to use.I'm a big fan of Double tapers,not just the economy , but its versatility.I am also a recent fan of weight foward line by Rio called Windcutter, i have acquired A Rio Gold weight foward and in the past have aquired 2 Rio Selective Trout lines.jury has decided Selective Trout isn't for me, jury isnt in on the Gold yet i havent even put it on a reel. For a weight foward line The windcutter is my favorite and also lays down delicately when the wind isn't there.
I have always and will always bee a Cortland guy where it pertains to double tapers. i have tried Airflo DT lines..IMHO they suck, their poly leaders however are really nice and i love their poly trout and also their Salmon leaders. Sci Angler IMHO sucks too.i hated the system 3 and system 4 lines they sucked had a bumply coating and i also checked other shops lines to see if it was just a bacth of lines..Jury says SUCKS.
Get a ortland 444, if you want a double taper, i forget if they are a 444SL or the 444 but they are the best.
If you find you like Rio products try a Windcutter.
Tight Wraps & Tight Lines
Rick Wallace

 

[gutcutter]

 

[RLeep2]

I tend to think that what HA said was generally true back in the days before we had all these specialized fly lines specifically designed for casting weighted flies to Lahontan Cuttthroats from a 73.5" high pier with a 15 mph crosswind. On Tuesdays and Thursdays. Before noon.

That's when a lot of the tapers began to change, IIRC.

 

[turkey]

gutcutter wrote:
Nice cartoon made by the marketing department of a fly line company. Yeah, that's correct. Believe SA's cartoon...

I'm not sure I follow what the discrepancy is here.

Gutcutter, you're saying that, "Double taper lines have that weight distributed throughout the first 30 feet of line." Are you saying that the first 30' of DT line weighs more than the "middle" section? Therefore the last 30' of said line would again, weigh more?

I though that the density/weight of a standard DT was even from the back end of the front taper to the front end of the rear taper. DT lines are the same on both ends yes? Hence theyre reversible right?

I used these 2 lines, both in 4 weight this previous year and if I had to pick just one...it would be the DT...but that is probably because most of my casting requirements are short to medium lengths at best.

 

[troutpoop]

Ok, so is the general consensus that the double taper will cast better short, to include roll casting, and the WF will cast better longer due to the weight distribution?
If that is the case I would then conclude the smaller weight rods would often perform better with the double tapers just because the distances most used are shorter??
I'm in the market for a new 4wt line and have a medium speed rod. I was considering a WF but may rethink it to a DT.

My 5 & 6 weights are much faster rods and need the Rio Clouser or similar lines for me to feel the rod even loading.

 

[turkey]

I would agree with that T.P. That doesn't mean that it's the same for everyone, but I follow your logic.

To complicate matters Rio and S.A. also make lines that are a "half size heavier" than the AFTMA standard grain rating.

 

[salvelinus]

For a given AFTMA fly line size, the first 30 feet weight the same, WF or DT. If you are casting more than 30 feet, a DT will load the rod more because of the thicker middle section compared to the running line of a WF. But every manufacturer has different taper designs for their various line series, be it DT or WF, so one might perform better on your rod than another. It would be nice to test cast various lines but unless you know a shop owner willing to let you try them out it is pretty much a crapshoot. The main advantage to DT is better roll casting ability, plus you can reverse the line and use the other end.

 

[gfen]

troutpoop wrote:
Ok, so is the general consensus that the double taper will cast better short, to include roll casting, and the WF will cast better longer due to the weight distribution?

THey will be indistingushable to the end of a WF's start of rear taper. There will be no difference.

Once you cross the rear taper threshold, a WF will cast further and suffer in roll casting as the rear taper and running line will not turn over the heavier head. It will, however, sail through the guides better when you shoot line.

Inverse, the DT will not shoot line as well as there is no running line, only body. It will, however, roll cast better as like weight turns over like weight easier than thin running line turns over heavy head.

 

[Ramcatt]

While DT line is pretty standard
there are countless different tapers that fit as WF
each with a specific design and use case... all needed? no, but they can help
personally, i have never thought of using a DT line and see them as an inferior tool, with its only use comes with a pair of scissors

The SA diagrams are very useful and TRUE
don't believe me? buy a micrometer and learn some tapers... then start splicing

 

[jdaddy]

Can't believe gfen hasn't pulled this out yet, but remember that you can wear out the first 45 ft or so of a DT, spool it, flip it around and bam (!) new line.

 

[afishinado]

The label "Weight Forward" is really a misnomer and causes a lot of confusion. Standard taper WF and DT are identical in the front section of line, so no difference in casting up to 55' or so. As far as roll casting, the taper to running line on most WF lines is 35 - 40'. Add that to the length of the rod and leader and you're looking at close to a 50 - 60' roll cast before the running line is out of the tiptop. That's well beyond the roll cast distance for most casters.

Other than the ability to reverse the line with DT, I see no advantage to using it. The advantage of the WF taper is the ability to shoot line with ease, while the weight of DT, without the running line, tends to overload your rod on longer casts.

 

[gfen]

jdaddy wrote:
Can't believe gfen hasn't pulled this out yet, but remember that you can wear out the first 45 ft or so of a DT, spool it, flip it around and bam (!) new line.

That's an advantage, not a difference.

And it's "biggity bam."

I disgree on the "up to 50'" statement. That's poor use of information. While that may be the case in some examples, I'm willing to bet that that any line that comes with 60' of combined front taper and belly in a WF configuration is going to be only available in a WF configuration.

Above is the diagram for the humble Cortland 444 "peach."

Including front level tip, the total head length of a WF is 28.5'. I think roll casting a 30' distance is no great shake for many people, is it? To insure I'm not accused of artifically loading the discussion, the rear taper is 4', making a total of 32.5', also not hard.

As long as you are within the front head on a Cortland 444, you are casting the exact same line.

This may be applied to any line sold in both a DT or WF designation. The head profile will be the exact same in both lines, as long as you're in the same product. Different products will yield different results, but will mirror their respective DT and WF profiles.

Confusion erupts when you get into speciality lines. This is where you find things with 60' heads, usually involving multiple tapers front and back.

 

[afishinado]

gfen wrote:

jdaddy wrote:
Can't believe gfen hasn't pulled this out yet, but remember that you can wear out the first 45 ft or so of a DT, spool it, flip it around and bam (!) new line.

That's an advantage, not a difference.

And it's "biggity bam."

I disgree on the "up to 50'" statement. That's poor use of information. While that may be the case in some examples, I'm willing to bet that that any line that comes with 60' of combined front taper and belly in a WF configuration is going to be only available in a WF configuration.

Above is the diagram for the humble Cortland 444 "peach."

Including front level tip, the total head length of a WF is 28.5'. I think roll casting a 30' distance is no great shake for many people, is it? To insure I'm not accused of artifically loading the discussion, the rear taper is 4', making a total of 32.5', also not hard.

As long as you are within the front head on a Cortland 444, you are casting the exact same line.

This may be applied to any line sold in both a DT or WF designation. The head profile will be the exact same in both lines, as long as you're in the same product. Different products will yield different results, but will mirror their respective DT and WF profiles.

Confusion erupts when you get into speciality lines. This is where you find things with 60' heads, usually involving multiple tapers front and back.

Forgot sum'tin G, from the diagram:

8' front taper + 20' belly + 4' rear taper = 32'

Add a 9' leader and a 9' rod and it's around a roll 50' cast before the the running line is out of the tiptop.

I like to have running line to shoot, but not a big deal for shorter casts.

Wulff Triangle tapers roll casts well and Orvis Easy Mend has a longer belly for mending and roll casting.

No problem if your prefer DT, peach and Medalist reels...different strokes.

 

[jayL]

+1 for weight forward. I like long casts. They make me happy. When I try to shoot a long cast with DT, it makes me sad.

Simple as can be.

 

[gfen]

afishinado wrote:
8' front taper + 20' belly + 4' rear taper = 32'

Add a 9' leader and a 9' rod and it's around a roll 50' cast before the the running line is out of the tiptop.

32.5, actually. Its listed up there, thank you very much! ;-)

However, based on the additional 18' of leader and rod, then it sounds like we all can consistently roll cast 50'. Pretty savvy, actually. I was always pretty embarassed by my poor rollcasts, but I've essentially increased it by 50% in a paragraph.

afishinado wrote:
Wulff Triangle tapers roll casts well and Orvis Easy Mend has a longer belly for mending and roll casting.

Careful, because we're moving into "speciality tapers" here, which is something else I carefully moved away from. TT is a different beast, and while I don't have a taper profile, IIRC its a very long front to facilitate turnover, and a very long rear as a design comproimise to assist in turning over effectiveness in addition to gaining WF shootability.

Easy Mend, by your own defination, is a "long belly" line. Effectively blurring the line between a DT's advantage (~75' of belly) and giving you more shooting if you can get its long belly out. Again, not knowing taper profile, it sounds like the effective retort against lines like this, TT and Expert Distance is the "turn it around" DT argument. But, that's another discussion, and not germane to this.

I maintain my statement: If its sold in both DT and WF designations, then the line is the exact same to end of the head.

afishinado wrote:
No problem if your prefer DT, peach and Medalist reels...different strokes.

I've avoided any sermonizing (for once!) on the benefits of one versus the other, the explanation simply puts forth what the technical differences are.

...

Although, if you want advantages, just pull that DT off, flip 'er around and biggity bam!, new line! Two fer one, try that with your fancy weight forwards!

 

[afishinado]

DT taper = WF taper for roll casting to 50+/-.

If you want to roll cast further, there are plenty of WF lines with long bellies AND a running line for shooting long casts.

If you want to swap around your line when it wears, buy DT.