Do stocked trout lack intelligence or do they only lack experience?

[Oregon_OwlII]

Having just returned to my camp in Forest County directly from the Jam where I fished Penns Creek and Spring Creek on consecutive days, I began wondering about stocked vs wild.

I also thought about the trout in the East Hickory DHALO that were stocked in late April. As newly stocked fish they wanted to eat everything they saw. There were no fish pellets being provided multiple times per day. They had to make a diet conversion from fish pellets to the real world of minnows, aquatic insects and terrestrials. In their first 3 days in the DHALO they pounced on anything that floated past their nose and they took a lot of lumps. They were very each to catch.

Soon after these trout were stocked in the East Hickory DHALO, I fished 15.5 hours over 3 days and caught 77. (5.3 per hour) This was the trout’s first chance to experience the real world and they made lots of mistakes.

But fast forward a month. These last 2 days I fished 4.5 hours on the East Hickory DHALO and I caught 3 (0.67 per hour).

That got me thinking that stocked fish do adapt to their environment and have the ability to learn what is safe and what they should avoid.

Comparing stocked fish to wild trout. Wild trout had to learn from day 1 what was food and what was not. I’m sure they made lots of mistakes too but probably at a much younger age. Likely before anglers even caught them.

Looking at my experience on Penns this past weekend, I fished 8 hours over 2 days and I caught 6 trout (0.75 per hour). The fish in Penns Creek tend to be considered the Crown Jewels of PA. That made me wonder if stocked fish vs wild fish have similar intelligence but they have different journey to get to the same level of wariness. Maybe it’s just experience that is lacking in the stocked fish.

With protection in a DHALO the stocked fish can be caught and released multiple times and they learn and get smarter. This allows larger stocked fish (8-12 inches) to make mistakes that wild trout encounter soon after hatching.

On Spring I fished for 7 hours over one day and I caught 3 (0.43 per hour). Once again a sub (>1 catch per hour). This was a day without a spinner fall. That event would have driven up trout per hour a little bit.

I realize I’m throwing out a very small sample size. We all know stocked trout can be dumb. Nothing that is done in a hatchery is preparing them for life after they exit the white buckets. But revisit these same stocked fish after 30 days of protection from a DHALO, C&R, or FFO and see how quickly they adapt and catch up to wild trout at a similar age.

I live in a region that has very little natural reproduction. My camp is in a region that has limited natural reproduction. Most are small wild streams that the fish also lack experience and they tend to eat everything. These 2 populations are not wary at all. Last but not least I spend about 11 days on Kettle Creek where stocked fish are the king. They certainly get picky on this water, especially sections that are easy to get to. Some of the stockies there get very educated.

Other factors related to catch rates

• Typical water speed
• Area weather patterns
• Angler experience level
• Size of water
• ….I’m sure a lot more

Based on my experience, I’m leaning toward a stocked fish that gets pressured daily (or every other day), will be as smart as a wild fish. It’s experience and not genetics that makes the difference.

My question to you: Do you feel that if the majority of stocked fish did not die due the thermal issues over the summer, would there be very little difference in angler success between freestone and spring creeks


@Mike
I hope you can provide your take on this too.

I think the factor that separates the two has to do with survival over winter. Stocked fish have a very low rate compared to wild fish. If they do survive winter, then the next hurdle is passing on the genes. So, after two season, you want to get a measure not only of what stockies vs. wild catch rate, but more importantly, what is their survival and recruitment rate.

 

[PennKev]

My question to you: Do you feel that if the majority of stocked fish did not die due the thermal issues over the summer, would there be very little difference in angler success between freestone and spring creeks

Do you feel that wild freestone trout are any harder/easier to catch than spring creek fish?

That would be your answer.

 

[Bamboozle]

Ducks, geese, cows and angling pressure are the deciding factors...

When I fish Class A's with a lot of ducks & geese, the fish put up with a lot of nonsense from anglers. At one particular stream I fish often, I frequently catch wild trout inches away from me that I waded past trying to get closer to other fish further upstream.

I also caught a wild brown on Falling Springs that had just been $#!+ and p!$$ed on by a cow...

Seriously...

When I'm away from critters & as many people as it's possibly to be away from on a stocked stream, both wild & stocked trout become a lot "smarter."

 

[Prospector]

Do you feel that wild freestone trout are any harder/easier to catch than spring creek fish?

That would be your answer.

That’s tough for me because I don’t feel like I catch many wild fish in freestone streams. I tend to get the trout back to the water quickly which also impacts identification of wild. I have fished tail races where I knew they would mostly be wild.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

I thought there were differences in certain aspects of survival such as seeking thermal refuges during times of stress. whether that comes down to being dumb or smart is up to others to debate

 

[Mike]

This naturally has evolved into a wide ranging discussion so for the moment I’ll specifically address the op in 1) below with info from Pa statewide studies, specifically the 2003 (2005?) statewide stocked trout angler use and harvest study (opening day until June 1) and 2004 statewide wild trout stream angler use and harvest study (entire harvest season). I’ll also mention learning much more extensively in 2) below.

1) Catch rates (catch per hour) were much, much higher for wild trout than stocked trout.
2)Learning is well-documented for angled species in the scientific literature. Largemouth bass, for example. As one has suggested, some individuals in a given water body are better learners than others to the extent that in carp, for example, some individuals just need to witness another individual being caught and the witness learns to avoid hooks or bait or line…or the combination for extended periods. Also, in pond experiments, some LMB are caught frequently while some are never caught and the length of time that the negative experience affects catchability varies among individuals.

Some species (many species?) release a warning pheremone from cut skin. Particularly known for minnows. Can’t say I’ve seen that mentioned for structures around the jaw or mouth.

Additionally, it would not surprise me if trout in fright/flight mode will ”put down” other fish that witness the behavior. It would be a valuable adaptation that I suspect could be brought about through natural selection. Frighten a wild trout in a small freestoner from the tail end of a small pool and it seems that opportunity to catch a different trout often disappears from the habitat at the upstream end into which the frightened trout fled even though the quality of habitat at the upstream end almost assuredly would hold more than just one fish based on decades electrofishing experience in wild trout streams in NW, NC, SC, NE, and SE Pa.

 

[Tigereye]

I thought there were differences in certain aspects of survival such as seeking thermal refuges during times of stress. whether that comes down to being dumb or smart is up to others to debate

Fish and all animals are instinctually driven by 3 things. Food, shelter and reproduction. My guess is that seeking thermal refuge is critical to survival and is a form of shelter.

I recall on the Lackawaxen R. a stack of fish, nose to the bank seeking thermal refuge at a spring seep that was more of a sheet flow than a channelized stream. The spring was 58 degrees and the main stream was 76.

 

[rustbeltwilds]

Especially when ya move a big wild or flat out gets off... You pretty much tip your hat towards the fish ...wish him well and return at a later date under ideal conditions...like after a big rain lol. Stocked fish sometimes keeps coming back to the well.. like moths drawn to a flame..

 

[Mike]

Stocked trout don’t need to learn in the wild to seek thermal refugia in the form of spring seeps. I once witnessed them doing so in Tohickon Ck, Bucks Co within an hour after they were stocked into 72 F water. And at that location anglers could not catch a fish. Yet a mile upstream where the water was 71 deg anglers were doing quite well on the freshly stocked fish within an hour of stocking. In case you’re wondering, the trout were tempered to within a few degrees of the stream’s temperature before stocking by gradually diluting a portion of the truck’s water with creek water. I suspect that would not happen in today’s world with biosecurity concerns that exist, but I don’t know for certain given such circumstances. If it did, the truck tanks would need to be “disinfected.”

 

[Prospector]

1) Catch rates (catch per hour) were much, much higher for wild trout than stocked trout.
2)Learning is well-documented for angled species in the scientific literature.

Mike, thanks for participating. I know you have a ton to offer.

A big issue here is the term “wild trout” covers a pretty wide range of habitat and stream size. One category might be large stream (Penns, Spring, BFC, LJ …etc). Another might be the NCPA brook trout streams that may have already morphed into being “brown trout dominant” or at least trending that way. Also you have counties where wild brook trout streams have lower catch rates due to being less fertile and they tend to be ignored. Essentially there are a lot of flavors of wild trout. Some are desperate for food while others have don’t expend much energy to feed like kings.

My original intent was to compare pressured “wild trout waters” like Penns, Spring, BFC, LJ …etc against stocked trout waters where fish are protected from harvest. It does seem I had a very small amount of anecdotal data that suggested “if stocked trout had a week, 2 weeks or a month of protection from harvest” they would be as wary as a Penns Wild Brown. I’m hoping there is some info that tackles that subject.

I know many people like to catch wild trout. I certainly do. But I also enjoy catching stocked trout. Honestly I’m not driven by wild, simply because my house and my camp are in counties that have limited natural reproduction. Bottimline is, I like to fish and I just like to catch fish. The origin really doesn’t matter.

So maybe it all comes down to this. Many people feel stocked trout are inferior. I translate that statement as stocked trout are less intelligent as the fish that live in a handful of very fertile and popular streams in Central PA. Is that fact or fiction?

 

[afishinado]

Interesting subject.

In general terms, "natural selection" dictates that the wariest of trout, or any another fish or animal for that matter, will tend to survive and pass on its genes/traits. Therefore, at least after multiple generations, the wild trout in the stream would tend to be more wary than stocked trout which are raised and bred to grow fast and feed on pellets. As Mike pointed out above, fish can "learn", but overall, given the same conditions in a stream, I would guess wild trout would be warier than stocked trout.

Many wild trout streams are stocked....too many! And yet in the spring it is rare for stocked trout (holdovers) to be present, while the stream will be teaming with wild trout of multiple age groups.

 

[jifigz]

I know this is off topic and doesn't really regard the initial post, but I will admit my snobbery here. If there aren't wild trout present, then I have no interest in fishing there. I would only fish there if I was there for some other reason or to help a kid or something.

I have practically ZERO respect for stockies. It is a good thing that wild fish are basically everywhere.

 

[jifigz]

Many wild trout streams are stocked....too many! And yet in the spring it is rare for stocked trout (holdovers) to be present, while the stream will be teaming with wild trout of multiple age groups.

That is true. But in many wild trout streams, those stockies exist, persist, and THRIVE! I can think of numerous streams where stockies go in and they grow bigger and live long lives.

 

[troutbert]

Mike, thanks for participating. I know you have a ton to offer.

A big issue here is the term “wild trout” covers a pretty wide range of habitat and stream size. One category might be large stream (Penns, Spring, BFC, LJ …etc). Another might be the NCPA brook trout streams that may have already morphed into being “brown trout dominant” or at least trending that way. Also you have counties where wild brook trout streams have lower catch rates due to being less fertile and they tend to be ignored. Essentially there are a lot of flavors of wild trout. Some are desperate for food while others have don’t expend much energy to feed like kings.

My original intent was to compare pressured “wild trout waters” like Penns, Spring, BFC, LJ …etc against stocked trout waters where fish are protected from harvest. It does seem I had a very small amount of anecdotal data that suggested “if stocked trout had a week, 2 weeks or a month of protection from harvest” they would be as wary as a Penns Wild Brown. I’m hoping there is some info that tackles that subject.

I know many people like to catch wild trout. I certainly do. But I also enjoy catching stocked trout. Honestly I’m not driven by wild, simply because my house and my camp are in counties that have limited natural reproduction. Bottimline is, I like to fish and I just like to catch fish. The origin really doesn’t matter.

So maybe it all comes down to this. Many people feel stocked trout are inferior. I translate that statement as stocked trout are less intelligent as the fish that live in a handful of very fertile and popular streams in Central PA. Is that fact or fiction?

I recommend not worrying about any of that stuff. Just enjoy fishing for stocked trout, wild trout, bass, bluegills, etc.

 

[Prospector]

Interesting subject.

Many wild trout streams are stocked....too many!

The one that irks me the most is Young Woman's Creek in Clinton Co. The wild browns and brook are fine. Why add rainbows? Just to push the wild trout out of the best lies?

Happens on Little Kettle too.

 

[Prospector]

I recommend not worrying about any of that stuff. Just enjoy fishing for stocked trout, wild trout, bass, bluegills, etc.

I do enjoy fishing for whatever is there.

It all started out as me admiring the progress the stocked trout in East Hickory Creek made at turning down my offerings. They learned very quickly how to evaluate an offering and a presentation.

 

[td566]

I enjoy fishing for stocked trout, but more so after the stocking trucks stop visiting the streams. I feel a sense of “accomplishment” catching a holdover in a stocked stream after the Memorial Day weekend. I consider these fish the wise ones who have made it this far. I would consider them as wary as wild trout. Their colors are usually prettier by this time too.
When I do get the chance to fish for wild trout (I live in the SwPA desert) I equally enjoy the experience. The fish in brook trout streams I have fished over the years do not seem very wary to me, but they are fast learners if you miss the strike the first time. I have never fished a wild brown trout stream but have caught an occasional one that I thought was wild.

There was an outdoor author that said “I like where trout live”, or something like that. That’s why I enjoy fishing for them, stocked or wild. And when the waters warm, I enjoy smallmouth fishing in parts of those same scenic streams.

 

[wildtrout2]

I know this is off topic and doesn't really regard the initial post, but I will admit my snobbery here. If there aren't wild trout present, then I have no interest in fishing there.

I have practically ZERO respect for stockies. It is a good thing that wild fish are basically everywhere.

Bingo! My thoughts exactly.

 

[dryflyguy]

I agree with prospectors ending assessment in post #1
Stocked fish in waters that receive heavy pressure, can get very selective - just like wild trout

Prime example is the keystone select section of oil creek in petroleum center.
Which I'd bet prospector has fished.
These fish get pounded relentlessly from the time they're stocked.
And by this time of year, can be quite difficult to catch.

Another example - a section of the Youghiogheny river around Ramcat trail access.
Fish are always rising in the long slow pool just above the rapid area there.
But good luck catching them too

In a similar note, I've fished a special regulation area of the Tongue River in Wyoming, that's just full of cutthroat's.
But these fish have grown really selective too, as the result of heavy fishing pressure there.
Cuts are supposed to dumb and easy to catch right?
Not there.....

Bottom line for me:
Fish dont like getting caught over and over - whether they are stocked or wild.
And wise up rather quickly

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

I know this is off topic and doesn't really regard the initial post, but I will admit my snobbery here. If there aren't wild trout present, then I have no interest in fishing there. I would only fish there if I was there for some other reason or to help a kid or something.

I have practically ZERO respect for stockies. It is a good thing that wild fish are basically everywhere.

All the browns and rainbows we might adore as wild fish were at one time the progeny of stocked trout.