Delaware River- " We have a problem Houston!"

[LongWader]

I was wondering why they were releasing so much water from the Cannonsville dam on the West Branch when I saw a fishing report for the Upper Delaware River referencing a press release from the NY DEP that said they were drawing down the reservoir for repair work.

The NY DEP has a problem with the Cannonsville dam! They were doing bore drillings at the base of the dam in preparation for installing the new hydroelectric equipment when they released a supposed pocket of silty water that is now running out from the rocky substrate at the base of the dam. They are currently drawing down the reservoir to work on it. While they say there is not a problem I can only imagine where the silty water would be coming from and that would be from water draining from underneath the accumulate silt at the base of the dam. I am afraid that the DEP has just undermined their own dam with their bore drilling work. Time will tell how this is going to affect the fishing resource. If they have to shut down the dam to work on it we could have a major problem. They will be drawing down the reservoir for the foreseeable future to determine the extent of the damage and how to repair it.
As per usual the DEP is being cryptic about the problem and what they are going to actually do about it.

According to the DEP's preliminary findings they are hoping this is some ground water pocket, but I can't help but wonder why ground water would be full of silt and if the DEP thought it was a ground water pocket why they would be in such a hurry to draw down the reservoir.

Additional public hearing are scheduled and they should be interesting if not informative.

 

[AFISHN]

This could be a real downer..drawing down Cannonsville ,in a controlled manner,will take a while to avoid flooding homes downstream.At best,this sounds like streamer fishing from a boat for awhile.

 

[Swattie87]

As opposed to higher water now, isn't the bigger concern drawing down and burning through the cool water reserves in the reservoir? Then after that, if the reservoir is held at a lower level for some time while repair needs are assessed and completed, the lower pool level will result in a lower carrying capacity of cold water in the reservoir?

Hopefully it takes long enough to draw down the reservoir that the cold water will last through the heat of this Summer. Then they maybe they can complete repairs over the Winter and let it begin filling again in the Spring? Too optimistic?

 

[krayfish2]

When I was up at the beginning of the month, I found 2 things kinda odd.....

When launching at Stilesville and driving up to the little jack dam, noticed very dirty water on the right hand bank as you look down river.

The second thing that stood out was the cleaning girl at the motel letting me know that we have 7 minutes to flee if the dam were to break. Why would she say that out of the blue?

I'm guessing that this was discovered a few weeks prior to the press release. And now the chicken or the egg question..... Was this a prior condition or caused by prep for the hydroelectric project that is scheduled to lose money for the next 30 years?

If it was there prior to the project, I'm glad they found it as are the residents of the valley. If this fishery is lost due to installation of "feel good" green energy project that is going to lose money, someone needs strung up.

Hopefully there's enough water to provide a big shot of cold water to the main stem through mid / late August. At least the fish get some thermal refuge through the summer. We'll then have to see what happens with the dam repairs and the hydroelectric project. It's one of those 'do you laugh or cry' type of moments....especially after just purchasing a driftboat. The dry fly action will probably be negatively impacted by the high water but subsurface should be rolling along. Find slack water and you should find risers.

 

[LongWader]

Those are my concerns as well regarding DEP's ability to maintain the cool water releases and that this supposed green project may have ruined a perfectly good dam. My understanding is that the muddy water is coming from a bore drilling done for the installation of the new hydroelectric machinery. If the DEP had confidence that it was just a pocket of ground water then why are they drawing down the reservoir. The simply does not add up. If the compromised the integrity of the rock substrate supporting the dam then it is going to be one big costly mess up for all concerned. I would not want to be the engineering firm that said it would be fine to bore drill the rock substrate that supports the dam.

When I was up on the West Branch the end of June the locals were wondering where all the silt was coming from. Maybe this issue has been going on for a while and the DEP is just now letting the public know that there maybe a problem. The locals also said that the DEP had been exceptionally quiet about the hydroelectric project's progress this Spring and Summer and some wondered if they had tabled the project.

We may now have an answer and the answer is:

"Houston we have a problem!".

It ain't pretty and when the public finds out we are in deep $#%.

 

[blueheron]

I have seen my share of hydro-electric facilities and the flows they produce and I can find nothing good to say about them . Unless ,of course, you are affiliated with the power company or construction company that drove that trainwreck of a project and stand to profit, good idea or bad. Chalk another one up to the political haves, while the have-nots get to deal with the mess.

 

[tomitrout]

not to be overly cynical....but a man made fishery now having issues because of man made problems? oh well.

Mother Nature will sort it all out eventually...

 

[JackM]

God forbid the fishing suffer....

 

[Chaz]

I can't vouch for the calculations I just did, they could be wrong, but at the current release rate it would take 95 days to empty the full reservoir. That would get the river well into the cold weather months. It's reason for concern, but not panic. Keep us posted.

 

[vcregular]

Your math is about right on. And that is with no inflow.

I think they just grout the hell out of it. It will be fine.

 

[RyanR]

blueheron wrote:
I have seen my share of hydro-electric facilities and the flows they produce and I can find nothing good to say about them . Unless ,of course, you are affiliated with the power company or construction company that drove that trainwreck of a project and stand to profit, good idea or bad. Chalk another one up to the political haves, while the have-nots get to deal with the mess.

Some of the best tail waters in the East are because of hydroelectric dams. Fish one and I'll bet you find at least a few good things to say about them. Who provides your electricity?

 

[blueheron]

I fish in New Hampshire below hydro plants in operation since the twenties. The electricity is more expensive there, I'm not sure why, and the rivers are regulated to the point that the cold water fishery is heavily impacted. I still can't think of anything good to say about them in relation to cold water fish. The only one in Pa I can think of, that I fish, off the top of my head is the Lackawaxen , not a great tailwater. Not a bad place to fish, just not a world class fishery like the Upper D.

 

[krayfish2]

Tomi,
How about another "treatment" of the cress beds in bonny brook? Man-made or not, it's one of the top wild trout fisheries in the US. Salmon River in Pulaski, Lake Erie steelhead, Bighorn, Green River and on and on. Just because it's not in your town....F it?

And yes Jack, lets not have the fish suffer. You like to dry fly fish and should try it sometime but you'd have to drive past Penns to get there and we all know that's as far east as you'll go. The river has unbelievable insect life and your AVERAGE fish is 17" with tons over 20" and plenty of surface feeding fish in the 23"-25" range. As a fly angler, you don't see losing this resource as a shame? It rivals many waters in the west but has fish that are as /more difficult to catch than what you'll find in the railroad ranch section of the Henry's Fork.

The project is to cost 70 mil +. The yearly return is estimated at 1.2 mil.....the subtract salaries and other operating costs. It's a losing proposition but the green crowd gets a feel good moment. Truly a shame.

Those who have spent extensive time on that river system know what it has to offer. Those that have visited it and left disappointed were in over their skill level. Even if the project is a disaster, I think some fish will continue to survive by finding thermal refuge but it would be a shadow of its current self. It's 3.5 hours from me and it's the only place I fish anymore. In all honesty, nothing in PA can touch it.

 

[RyanR]

I fish NH too. The fisheries are excellent, what do you mean the cold water fisheries are heavily impacted? I fish the Upper Connecticut River and the best thing about it is that the flows remain rather consistent & cold all season long. The guides and outfitters on the Upper Conn often talk about and promote that consistency. Yes, parts of the Androscoggin get too warm in the heat of summer and I think there is more variation of flow and influence by the hydro dam but it still offers pretty darn good trout fishing, enough that guides run many trips on the river.

The Lackawaxen might not be a great tailwater to you or I (although it's decent and getting better with more advocacy) but a number if the hydro tail waters in the Southeast states sure are great tailwaters, famous in fact. I'm not saying all hydro dams are great for trout fisheries but obviously some great tail waters exist because of them. I do hope the Upper D's fishery is not greatly altered or destroyed by this Hydro plant but it could possibly unintentionally benefit it, we can certainly hope so.

 

[dryflyguy]

FWIW -

There has been a similar problem going on at the east branch clarion river dam.
They found structural deficiencies there, and had to draw down the lake quite a bit.
To solve the problem, the engineers came up with a way to repair the dam without emptying the lake completely - which would have severely impacted the tailwater fishery below.
While still keeping the reservoir filled at a decent capacity, they're boring down into the dam to strengthen it again.
However, apparently, it takes a good bit of time to do it this way. It's been going on for several years now.

Hopefully, they can repair the WB dam without much damage to the great tailwater fishery there too

 

[DaveS]

After some thought and the comments from dryflyguy, I'm at least hopeful. They are just getting a handle on the severity of the problem and how to fix it. Obviously, its only prudent to dump some of the head pressure off the dam. It may be the best way to determine if the water upwelling is from the lake. Lower the lake and the upwelling drops; then I'd guess its coming from the lake.

I'm going to wait and see, and hope for the best. I'm not ready to start selling "Farewell Tour" T-shirts for Kray's JAM in /September yet.

Life is full of ups and downs, don't start freakin out... yet.

 

[tomitrout]

Tomi,
How about another "treatment" of the cress beds in bonny brook? Man-made or not, it's one of the top wild trout fisheries in the US. Salmon River in Pulaski, Lake Erie steelhead, Bighorn, Green River and on and on. Just because it's not in your town....F it?

Nope, just simply a case of it being an artificial, man made fishery, all tailwaters are whether they're in my backyard or not. Letort isn't a man made cold water fishery, so you're comparing apples to oranges.

Let the dam fail, mother nature will do her thing and return it to its natural state before we started futzing with it.

 

[krayfish2]

I'm not claiming that the sky is falling and they've dumped the lake before but it was to repair the tunnel. Until the meeting tomorrow and the truth is provided, we won't know the extent of the damage. If this leak is something that's been there and just discovered, it's good they found it before a major disaster. I'm thinking a few thousand residents appreciate it too. My personal thoughts are they started drilling (or whatever) for the hydro project and did an "ooopsy" and actually caused the problem. Hope I'm wrong though.

The rainbows have survived for years bofore the dams were built and I'm sure they'd continue just not at the current numbers.

Not buying a tombstone for her yet. Hopefully there's no additional complications once they get a look at it.

If the hydro project gets running and the releases are 1800 cfs for 3 hours, 100 cfs for 9 hours, 1800 cfs for 3 hours and so on......that's as good as removing the dam and will damage the fishery.

As for the letort, wait until the sink hole by the quarry swallows it. When it does, just let it go and allow mother nature to do her tthing. The letort may have naturally occurring cold water and apparently it also haw naturally occurring stone walls. Both place of American fly fishing.....Hanover St exit. Lol

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

the letort is an artifical fishery also in reality but this is fairly serious. fishing is a 1 billion dollar industy in pa and the delaware river is the crown jewel. i admire how andy is sticking up for the river here but it is sad he has to defend it from his peers. still i hope this thread gets back on track, both the delaware and the letort are wonderful. we might be the minority but the real reason we dont get more done is infighting like this

 

[Fishidiot]

krayfish2 wrote:
Until the meeting tomorrow and the truth is provided, we won't know the extent of the damage.

Please keep us informed of the results of this and other events, media reports, etc.

In these sorts of breaking stories it's tempting to speculate - I'm guilty of it too - before we have a clear picture. Hopefully solid info will be forthcoming quickly.