Closed Trout Season in PA

[cuboodle]

I would like 2 things to happen in PA. PAFBC re-subsidize private club hatcheries and only publish
"week of" stocking schedule. I know they rely on our help to carry buckets and float stock but its getting insane.

 

[Solitariolupo]

They only close it for a month. Sometimes when I want to fish for other fish. The waters get closed cause they have to stock some silly invasive trout.

 

[caddisflyer]

Good luck with catching spawning trout (sarcasm intended). Try it sometime if you want to prove my point. They are not like bass that will remove an intrudier, including a lure, from the nest. Nor are they like crappie or bluegill that are exceptionally vulnerable during spawning.

Just as one additional comment….Do the same people here who object to fishing over spawning trout also object to fishing and harvesting the aforementioned panfish when spawning given that they are much more vulnerable and clearly documented to show the negative population effects of overharvest? Where pressure is high stunting occurs in the BG case when harvest of large males is high. This is common in Pa. Likewise, cropping of crappie down to a much smaller size than their potential would allow occurs in waters where crappie growth is not limited by forage, water temps, or limited dissolved oxygen in the thermocline or thermocline/epilimnion interface. Just wondering if anglers who object to fishing over spawning trout are consistent in their thinking, especially regarding much more vulnerable species at spawning time. If not, why not?

They do not care if they hook them in the mouth. And removing the big fish from a small or medium creek or even stressing them so they die later is not a good idea, if you like catching nice fish later in springtime using fair tactics. If you wonder why Spring Creek has a lot of small fish and few big ones this could be part of the reason why. I won't say anymore.

 

[dudemanspecial]

If you wonder why Spring Creek has a lot of small fish and few big ones this could be part of the reason why. I won't say anymore.

It's not.

 

[krayfish2]

I'm a 100% yes for closing wild streams while put and take fisheries remain open with reduced limits. I'll even throw in the exception for keeping open spring creeks where the fish have much more favorable conditions for prolonged survival.

Someone mentioned that NY has great wild trout fisheries and the history of a closed season. They have been poisoned by the PFBC and it's a free-for-all 12 months a year on most waters. The only saving grace is that it's typically two inhospitable to be out there mid-December through the end of February.

 

[Brown71]

The guys out fishing bait in the fall, like myself, are NOT the guys out on April 15. Plenty of good ones.

Alot of good commentary here and im glad to see there seems to be alot of common sense. And I agree with the post about PETA and whatnot, its silly to argue over stuff like this, fisherman of all types need to stay united and keep this game going.

There is and always will be bad eggs in all walks of life. This board seems to have mostly good dudes, bait and fly guys, and thats good. Most guys I run into on the streams are ok. Occasionaly i see a jerk baitfisherman, or a true snob jerk flyfisherman. They are the minority though. Most guys, especially if your out in October through December-January, are ok guys.

 

[Mike]

Krayfish,
Calculated total annual mortality rates for Pa spring creeks and Pa freestoners were not significantly different when the data were reviewed in preparation for the Pa trout symposium. The calculated annual values were 60% for freestoners and 65% for limestoners.

 

[BradFromPotter]

I think it ought to be illegal for herons to stab big browns in the fall!

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Krayfish,
Calculated total annual mortality rates for Pa spring creeks and Pa freestoners were not significantly different when the data were reviewed in preparation for the Pa trout symposium. The calculated annual values were 60% for freestoners and 65% for limestoners.

I'd love to see the reviewed data, methodology and case study streams for this.

I have trouble believing 65 percent of the fish population dies in the Letort yearly, every year, forever.

 

[sarce]

Krayfish,
Calculated total annual mortality rates for Pa spring creeks and Pa freestoners were not significantly different when the data were reviewed in preparation for the Pa trout symposium. The calculated annual values were 60% for freestoners and 65% for limestoners.

Interesting stats. Does that include all ages of trout or just adults?

Doing a quick calc, if you start with 10,000 YoY and multiply by 0.35 to get the remaining for the next year, by year 5 there are 150 fish of the original 10,000 remaining. Which could be pretty large by that point in a limestoner...16"+?

 

[Mike]

Interesting stats. Does that include all ages of trout or just adults?

Doing a quick calc, if you start with 10,000 YoY and multiply by 0.35 to get the remaining for the next year, by year 5 there are 150 fish of the original 10,000 remaining. Which could be pretty large by that point in a limestoner...16"+?

The calculation usually starts from age 2 fish onward. It would be nice to start with age 1 fish and sometimes you can, but certainly age 2 and older fish are included. There are a couple reasons why you can’t always start with age 1 fish, but it boils down to not enough age 1 fish in the electrofishing catch in comparison to age 2 fish. Could be due to a weaker year class OR fish of the age 1 size not being “fully recruited to the gear,” meaning not captured efficiently.

Sarce, you have the idea, but with respect to YOY there is a much higher mortality rate in the first year. I have seen estimates for all fish in general to have first year mortality rates of 90-99%. It would be a pretty good bet that this would vary from year to year and that smaller or moderate year classes might have lower mortality rates, better growth rates, and more fat accumulation for better 1st winter survival because of less intraspecific competition.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

The calculation usually starts from age 2 fish onward. It would be nice to start with age 1 fish and sometimes you can, but certainly age 2 and older fish are included. There are a couple reasons why you can’t always start with age 1 fish, but it boils down to not enough age 1 fish in the electrofishing catch in comparison to age 2 fish. Could be due to a weaker year class OR fish of the age 1 size not being “fully recruited to the gear,” meaning not captured efficiently.

Sarce, you have the idea, but with respect to YOY there is a much higher mortality rate in the first year. I have seen estimates for all fish in general to have first year mortality rates of 90-99%. It would be a pretty good bet that this would vary from year to year and that smaller or moderate year classes might have lower mortality rates, better growth rates, and more fat accumulation for better 1st winter survival because of less intraspecific competition.

This is all determined with 300m sampling sites during the same time of year right?

 

[Acristickid]

You’d think a great angler could catch a big fish in all seasons and not just during the fall.

I didn’t vote.

Erie and the special reg stocked streams would remain open in my thoughts as limited as those are.

I’m not fervent about a closed season but I wonder how much of an improvement it might make in numbers of wild fish if at all.

 

[jifigz]

Closing streams would be, in my opinion, a waste of time. Most wild trout streams see very little pressure during the spawn. I said most...and the streams that do have lots of pressure (Spring Creek is an example) clearly doesn't have a problem with reproduction. No, fishing over spawners is not why Spring Creek has a lot of average and small sized fish and less "lunkers."

Given the current regulations, wild trout continue to thrive and expand, albeit it is often the dominant brown trout. The vast majority of wild trout, statewide me thinks, are very minimally impacted by autumn fishing. So, what are we exactly hoping to improve with a closed season? If wild trout numbers continue to rise and expand, thanks to improving water qualities I would presume, what are we after and what is the end-goal of a stream closure?

 

[Brown71]

jfigz - yes yes yes! Great post!!

 

[Zak]

My thoughts are that there is ZERO scientific evidence to support a move like this so absolutely not.

 

[bigjohn358]

No one answered my question....if they were closed during the spawn when would they reopen?

 

[TimMurphy]

No one answered my question....if they were closed during the spawn when would they reopen?

Dear bigjohn,

I'm not answering for everyone, but I think October 1st to Opening Day would most likely be the dates people would have in mind.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[Nocktavius]

Think we’re already doing enough to prop up what amounts to an invasive species in our waters that we don’t have to ruin the best part of the season. Don’t fish to trout on redds, don’t wade through redds, otherwise nothing wrong with fishing in fall during the spawn. With barbless hooks and cold water that 5 min max the fish is mildly inconvenienced before it swims away won’t hurt too much. Plus if it’s already weak and happens to not spawn because of that then that’s really just another form of selective pressure resulting in stronger offspring, right?

 

[Dubhlaine]

Dear bigjohn,

I'm not answering for everyone, but I think October 1st to Opening Day would most likely be the dates people would have in mind.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

That's what happens in most of Europe. I live near Pittsburgh now but from Ireland orgionally and now spend my retired summers in Ireland. The association I'm a member of, the state actually close the river the end of August! A wee bit early IMHO. Most all others close end of September and open around mid March for trout.
I would miss not getting out in the winter in PA but there is always the steel to cover that itch. 👍
All the best,
John