Brook Trout population before things were destroyed.

[FrankTroutAngler]

I think 5footfenwick and sixfootfenwick come within about twelve inches of agreeing with each other on most topics, it's just that their approach is slightly different.

 

[5footfenwick]

Well Frank, little known fact. I would have been 6footfenwick. But when I was in middle school my mom took me to fly fish my grandfathers farm pond for bluegills. Afterwards she accidentally slammed the rod tip of my favorite fly rod in the back door of the station wagon. A new tip was glued on and 5footfenwick was born. I still use this rod today and 90% of all the fish I’ve ever caught on a fly rod has been on this rod. Great for little brookie streams. Not so great for the big streams though haha!

 

[sixfootfenwick]

I think 5footfenwick and sixfootfenwick come within about twelve inches of agreeing with each other on most topics, it's just that their approach is slightly different.

Likely we would agree on many topics too. Probably not shameless self promotion though.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Well Frank, little known fact. I would have been 6footfenwick. But when I was in middle school my mom took me to fly fish my grandfathers farm pond for bluegills. Afterwards she accidentally slammed the rod tip of my favorite fly rod in the back door of the station wagon. A new tip was glued on and 5footfenwick was born. I still use this rod today and 90% of all the fish I’ve ever caught on a fly rod has been on this rod. Great for little brookie streams. Not so great for the big streams though haha!

My question is which model was your 6ft now 5ft Fenwick?
605?

 

[FrankTroutAngler]

Likely we would agree on many topics too. Probably not shameless self promotion though.

What one angler might call "shameless self-promotion" another angler might call "stating fishing credentials." "Credentials" equals "credibility" when teaching other anglers. My credentials are what piqued the interest of the hundreds of novices that I have helped to learn an amazingly exciting angling method. It's worth it to me to take a few jabs when I think about all of the anglers that I have helped.

By the way, even Dusty Rhoads credits me with piquing his interest in spinner fishing.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

What one angler might call "shameless self-promotion" another angler might call "stating fishing credentials." "Credentials" equals "credibility" when teaching other anglers. My credentials are what piqued the interest of the hundreds of novices that I have helped to learn an amazingly exciting angling method. It's worth it to me to take a few jabs when I think about all of the anglers that I have helped.

By the way, even Dusty Rhoads credits me with piquing his interest in spinner fishing.

So I was right 😂😉

 

[bringthepain]

I have a possibly stupid question. 'Clubs' can form and essentially write their own rules with being able to stock where there is none, etc. Why can't a bunch of brookie guys get together, form a 'native brookie' club and manage a stream as they see fit or in line with their interests per se the same way the other clubs do?

 

[jifigz]

I have a possibly stupid question. 'Clubs' can form and essentially write their own rules with being able to stock where there is none, etc. Why can't a bunch of brookie guys get together, form a 'native brookie' club and manage a stream as they see fit or in line with their interests per se the same way the other clubs do?

What would/could they do to manage it for brookies? Alter habitat? They might need some permits before legally doing that. Obviously they aren't going to be stocking it with anything.

The biggest thing that they could probably do to "manage" the stream would be to fish it and legally remove any stockies and wild browns or bows that they happen to catch.

 

[wildtrout2]

What would/could they do to manage it for brookies?

The biggest thing that they could probably do to "manage" the stream would be to fish it and legally remove any stockies and wild browns or bows that they happen to catch.

That's probably the only thing that could be done, along with mandatory C&R on natives, that would make any kind of a real difference in a given stream.

 

[troutbert]

I have a possibly stupid question. 'Clubs' can form and essentially write their own rules with being able to stock where there is none, etc. Why can't a bunch of brookie guys get together, form a 'native brookie' club and manage a stream as they see fit or in line with their interests per se the same way the other clubs do?

Clubs cannot set their own rules. They have a legal obligation to follow the laws and regulations.

I'm not sure what is meant by "with being able to stock where there is none, etc."

 

[jifigz]

That's probably the only thing that could be done, along with mandatory C&R on natives, that would make any kind of a real difference in a given stream.

Right. And mandatory C&R would pretty much be a given if the members were already in a club that is advocating/managing a stream for wild brook trout. This is, unfortunately, not how most clubs run as we all know. Most members want to be a part of something and pay dues/money so they can fish for large stockies, etc.

Otherwise, managing the stream for brookies is just like the vast amount of streams running through private and state lands that aren't stocked. So why would members want to pay dues/own a piece of land and do nothing to the stream other than fish it and maybe remove wild browns and bows if they catch them.

As TB said above, a club cannot "make laws." A club can, however, have guidelines that members must follow to remain in good standing, such as the release of all brookies, but they cannot legally harvest undersized fish or break other PFBC rules and laws.

 

[Beweav]

Mike,
I have often heard that larger sized brook trout populations won’t be back. There isn’t a way to get rid of the browns, there isn’t a way to reshade the creeks.(ie restore 500 year old trees to the banks) Etc.

If our state ever did decide to try and restore a single watershed to a brook trout fishery. Which one would they pick? Which one could brook trout make a comeback in? If Any?

My friends and I have often debated this around the campfire after a day of fishing. Usually involving a little whiskey and even littler trout…Loyalsock? Lycoming? Kettle? Beech creek ?What do you guys think?

Do any of you know anything about the AMD remediation being done on Catawissa Creek Skyulkill Co.? My family owns some land along there and, the tribs to it for sure have brook trout in them already. Seems like if you could get the amd problems figured out, that would be a fantastic larger brook trout fishery. It’s wooded along a lot of the upper sections, has significant volume and great structure. But I haven’t heard if the remediation is possible, or if its already working and people have stocked brown trout already.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Do any of you know anything about the AMD remediation being done on Catawissa Creek Skyulkill Co.? My family owns some land along there and, the tribs to it for sure have brook trout in them already. Seems like if you could get the amd problems figured out, that would be a fantastic larger brook trout fishery. It’s wooded along a lot of the upper sections, has significant volume and great structure. But I haven’t heard if the remediation is possible, or if its already working and people have stocked brown trout already.

River of the Year voting: Catawissa Creek an example of collaboration, persistence in tackling AMD issues

Approximately 5,500 miles of Pennsylvania waterways are impacted by abandoned mine drainage issues, according to the Eastern Pennsylvania Coalition of Abandoned Mine Reclamation (EPCAMR). Yet,...

www.middlesusquehannariverkeeper.org

Lots of potential.
Keep the browns out of it otherwise it will just be like any other stream eventually.

 

[jifigz]

Unless this photo is a stock photo, brown trout are already there. This website is claiming there are already fish alive and well in the Cattie.

Catawissa Creek Restoration Association

Soon to be a Class A Trout Stream

ccra.epcamr.org

 

[steliejim]

I was thinking about the access in that area, much less where to park off 339. Very familiar having grown up not far from there. Would cruise around that valley and look at the stream and think what if.

 

[TimMurphy]

I was thinking about the access in that area, much less where to park off 339. Very familiar having grown up not far from there. Would cruise around that valley and look at the stream and think what if.

Dear steliejim,

Unless you own land or know someone who does there is virtually no public access to the stream from the Audenreid Tunnel until it comes out in the open several miles downstream. In 2004 or 05, I was up at the tunnel outfall where the liming station was being built trying sell JT O'Hara an excavator. I never made the deal with him, but he gave me a business card and told me I could check out the creek below the project with his blessing, so I walked around a bit.

It was a beautiful creek bank full of cold clear AMD water. I know the liming station is working and the creek is coming back but access will always be a problem.

I'd love to go back for a looksee though!

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Unless this photo is a stock photo, brown trout are already there. This website is claiming there are already fish alive and well in the Cattie. View attachment 1641233832

Catawissa Creek Restoration Association

Soon to be a Class A Trout Stream

ccra.epcamr.org

If that is so, then that one, while absolutely worth restoring to a fishery, won't produce a big brook trout in any numbers and potential like it could have.

 

[bringthepain]

Clubs cannot set their own rules. They have a legal obligation to follow the laws and regulations.

I'm not sure what is meant by "with being able to stock where there is none, etc."

I was under the impression that the state allows clubs to stock class A streams where there is not already stocking being done. Is this incorrect?

 

[jifigz]

I was under the impression that the state allows clubs to stock class A streams where there is not already stocking being done. Is this incorrect?

I can think of two examples near me fire companies or whatever are allowed to stock Class A stream sections for fundraiser tournament type things. These Class A sections are already stocked by the state, however. These are both two examples of that strange and whacky "Class A but also Approved Trout Waters" scenarios, but they do allow private stockings to occur there.

I cannot comment on other Class A and private club stockings.....well, wait, what about Homewaters? Don't they stock fish over a Class A population in either the Little J or Spruce?

 

[sixfootfenwick]

To the questions raised by the one that resurrected the thread
IMO the Catawissa example in the thread is a classic example to the main issue and challenges of restoring a larger water for the propagation of larger brook trout.

1) you need a larger water with limited competition of fish species, this means previously destroyed water, like AMD.

2) the effort, time and money it takes to restore with water quality is massive.

3) there are tributaries, often that have isolated brook trout populations, that can repopulate the mainstem once restored. However just 1 or a few that are brown trout streams, will also repopulate the mainstem thus eventually cause a collapse of the intended goal.

4) some mainstems are cleaner downstream and have brown trout populations that will move up.

5) as the water cleans, locals, the PFBC, a watershed organization or someone has no interest in making it a brook trout water and want to satisfy the desire for a fishery they have worked years on. So they stock it.

There are some simple measures to combat all of that. Some, even here, would refuse to take them.

And so it goes. As more time passes more limited opportunities are lost.