Brook Trout population before things were destroyed.

[wildtrout2]

The last time I fished it, June 2022, I did only catch Brookies. I was the area of the mouth of Beth Run. Nothing of any size, but it did fish well that day.

I don’t recall exactly how far up the main stem I’ve caught a Brown. Roughly mouth of Cider Run maybe? I’ve caught them well up Cider Run too. Been probably 4 or 5 years since I was in that area.

That’s what I think Mehoopany and Schrader are better candidates. I don’t think there’s Browns in those, other than stocked ones.

I thought Schrader (Bradford county) got too warm, no?

 

[Swattie87]

I thought Schrader (Bradford county) got too warm, no?

Probably does further down. Same for most of the medium sized watersheds that hold Brookies, like we’re talking about here. I typically fish Schrader from the upper end, FWIW.

Of the three, Mehoopany stays the coldest, which is mind boggling when you look at the exposed streambed from flooding.

 

[wildtrout2]

I guess further up in the Game Lands it would be colder. That's SGL #12 isn't it? I used to hunt SGL #36, which is right there too.

I know many fly fishermen are C&R types, but I still think statewide C&R for brookies would be a big help towards the cause.

 

[Swattie87]

I guess further up in the Game Lands it would be colder. That's SGL #12 isn't it? I used to hunt SGL #36, which is right there too.

I know many fly fishermen are C&R types, but I still think statewide C&R for brookies would be a big help towards the cause.

Yeah. Parts of Schrader run through 12 and 36. Stretch I like is on 12.

 

[double00]

That net is quite unique. I was also wondering about some of those past members as well.

Not to send this thread down a road that will lead to its demise, but I’d lean more toward a watershed that is impaired and doesn’t yet have any, or many, Brown Trout. Upper Kettle, and the tribs in the upper watershed have lots of Brown Trout.

Beech Creek, if it could be cleaned up, would be an interesting one. Mosquito Creek in Quehanna Wild Area would be another. Bennett Branch maybe. Mehoopany and Schrader would be others IMO, that are probably capable of it now, if the stockers could be kept out of them. Maybe upper Bowmans, but there’s definitely at least some Browns up pretty far. Those options, where no, or few, Brown Trout are already present is where I’d start.

Maybe 30 years ago the Skuke County coal creeks would have worked, but they’ve all had Browns introduced, and are now mostly Browns, with a couple exceptions I’m going to choose not to name.

Bennett Branch is club stocked already, and Mosquito is as well down towards its mouth. The remainder of Mosquito is allegedly on the PFBC's radar for stocking in the future. Have just heard that locally, so not sure of how accurate that is.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Bennett Branch is club stocked already, and Mosquito is as well down towards its mouth. The remainder of Mosquito is allegedly on the PFBC's radar for stocking in the future. Have just heard that locally, so not sure of how accurate that is.

Which, is extremely stupid IMO.
That stream is very unique and pretty special but I suppose we can turn it into everything else with enough stocking and liming.

 

[Mike]

Mike,
I have often heard that larger sized brook trout populations won’t be back. There isn’t a way to get rid of the browns, there isn’t a way to reshade the creeks.(ie restore 500 year old trees to the banks) Etc.

If our state ever did decide to try and restore a single watershed to a brook trout fishery. Which one would they pick? Which one could brook trout make a comeback in? If Any?

My friends and I have often debated this around the campfire after a day of fishing. Usually involving a little whiskey and even littler trout…Loyalsock? Lycoming? Kettle? Beech creek ?What do you guys think?

Respectfully, I don’t want to stir the pot, so I’ll reserve my response to that question for a time down the road.

 

[Mike]

Bennett Branch is club stocked already, and Mosquito is as well down towards its mouth. The remainder of Mosquito is allegedly on the PFBC's radar for stocking in the future. Have just heard that locally, so not sure of how accurate that is.

Why not just ask the AFM if it’s true? No need to speculate; he’ll tell you.

 

[albatross]

Dear Board,

If you cruise the forest roads in the Bald Eagle, Sproul, or Tiadaughton State Forests and come across a municipal water supply reservoir stop and look around as your courage permits. I've never seen anyone patrolling them, but it is possible. With patience you will see 16+ inch brookies swimming in them.

On rare occasions, when the planets align, and a flooding rain hits the tributaries that feed those reservoirs those fish are available to catch, especially in the Fall.

Somewhere I have a picture of two 17-inch brookies my brother and I caught out of the feeder stream of a Clinton County water supply reservoir. If I manage to find it, I'll post it.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

I'll second this. My Dad was friends with the president of a local water authority and got us access to one of their reservoirs by rowboat. Near the inlet stream I was tossing a wooley bugger and caught brookies to 14" and wild bows to 16". Very memorable day for me to share with my Dad and certainly my personal best brookies...

 

[sixfootfenwick]

The truth is, minus any drastic steps to remove brown trout in some watersheds, or to get our heads on straight on some remaining AMD recovering watersheds, it will never happen.

As some other members have pointed out, there have been opportunities in recovering AMD watersheds. Most of those have been wasted. There is still some, but I'm sure they will be wasted too. Sadly all these would have needed was/is a few simple mitigation measures to accomplish the goal.

As it will likely stand in the future, if this topic is ever considered, it would require full scale removals.

 

[troutbert]

Bennett Branch is club stocked already, and Mosquito is as well down towards its mouth. The remainder of Mosquito is allegedly on the PFBC's radar for stocking in the future. Have just heard that locally, so not sure of how accurate that is.

The PFBC stocks Gifford Run, a major tributary to Mosquito Creek. A club also stocks Gifford Run and Mosquito Creek. I think the stretch they stock is from the mouth of Gifford Run down to the Quehanna Highway.

It's a travesty.

 

[Swattie87]

The PFBC stocks Gifford Run, a major tributary to Mosquito Creek. A club also stocks Gifford Run and Mosquito Creek. I think the stretch they stock is from the mouth of Gifford Run down to the Quehanna Highway.

It's a travesty.

I haven’t fully sampled the watershed yet, currently one of the areas I’m working on completing explorations in. Not easy to get down into that area. I’ve read the historical reports, and watershed management plans. Are there that many wild Brookies present? (It shouldn’t be stocked either way, but I don’t get the impression it’s very good, in terms of wild fish. Both from reports online and my personal experience thus far.)

I’ve fished Gifford, only caught emaciated stocked Rainbows. Saw a few smaller fish, Brookies I assume, but didn’t catch any. Poked around the Mosquito main stem at the Gifford confluence a little bit did catch anything. Still have plans to explore Mosquito mainstem and Twelvemile.

 

[Roofin' Trouter]

Bennett Branch is club stocked already, and Mosquito is as well down towards its mouth. The remainder of Mosquito is allegedly on the PFBC's radar for stocking in the future. Have just heard that locally, so not sure of how accurate that is.

Yep, 4 co-ops stock parts of BBS and PFBC stocks a few miles upstream Penfield (rt. 153) and roughly Medix Run to Benezette.

 

[troutbert]

I haven’t fully sampled the watershed yet, currently one of the areas I’m working on completing explorations in. Not easy to get down into that area.

If you want to go, send me a PM. We can go this season.

 

[5footfenwick]

Respectfully, I don’t want to stir the pot, so I’ll reserve my response to that question for a time down the road.

I understand, I really don’t want to stir the pot either. There had been a lot of arguing and whatnot on the topic previously. What I couldn’t find as I read the posts over the years were realistic ideas on watersheds where this could happen. Taking away one fishery to replace it with another seems like the wrong approach. The idea of Robbing Peter to pay Paul won’t work. That’s why I didn’t suggest things like slate or cedar etc.

Seems like there must be somewhere that could be used as a trial. Without pissing off to many fishermen. I think us carp anglers have all learned what happens when large scale elimination of an invasive species happens. The last 20 years or so with the internet and bow fishing. Carp are almost completely gone from every major river and creek here in central Pa. It’s a real shame too. My dad’s business as a carp guide is gone. As well as all the large old adult fish. Around here carp don’t even come up into flats and mud anymore. The large 40pound plus fish are nowhere to be found anymore. Destroying a fishery, even an invasive one can result in less fishing opportunities for anglers.

Mike sorry Didn’t mean to put you in a tough spot. Was just trying to have a discussion about possible solutions without all the fighting .

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Recovering AMD streams where the populations of fish have been destroyed. Especially those mainstreams that have brook trout populations in the tributaries that have been isolated.

There has been some good candidates for this. Unfortunately, as they clean up, they get stocked, then they get browns, then the browns take over.

Many of these streams had a very token populations of wild brown trout, if any, that would be easy to control.

The problem is just telling people they can't stock it, pisses off more people than would drive to fish it.

Over the years, I have found some of these and many of them have produced nice sized brook trout. Also, unfortunately, I have witnessed them decline as brown trout expand.
It's fun for awhile though.
I'm not going to name them on the open forum.

I understand, I really don’t want to stir the pot either. There had been a lot of arguing and whatnot on the topic previously. What I couldn’t find as I read the posts over the years were realistic ideas on watersheds where this could happen. Taking away one fishery to replace it with another seems like the wrong approach. The idea of Robbing Peter to pay Paul won’t work. That’s why I didn’t suggest things like slate or cedar etc.

Seems like there must be somewhere that could be used as a trial. Without pissing off to many fishermen. I think us carp anglers have all learned what happens when large scale elimination of an invasive species happens. The last 20 years or so with the internet and bow fishing. Carp are almost completely gone from every major river and creek here in central Pa. It’s a real shame too. My dad’s business as a carp guide is gone. As well as all the large old adult fish. Around here carp don’t even come up into flats and mud anymore. The large 40pound plus fish are nowhere to be found anymore. Destroying a fishery, even an invasive one can result in less fishing opportunities for anglers.

Mike sorry Didn’t mean to put you in a tough spot. Was just trying to have a discussion about possible solutions without all the fighting .

 

[5footfenwick]

Sixfootfenwick,
I have noticed it seems like a lot of not in my back yard type situations. Everyone wants stocked trout near their cabin or house. Perhaps the demand for a brook trout fishery with the potential for 10-14” fish just doesn’t appeal to the masses. Or is it a case of not wanting to give up one thing to potentially gain another. I personally would love to see one creek or watershed dedicated to brook trout just one. But perhaps I am in such a small majority that our voice just isn’t heard.

I could imagine a creek like Beech creek being a huge attraction if it gave anglers a taste of brook trout fishing 150 years ago. I think until anglers start working together though things like this just won’t happen. The majority rules and perhaps the desire for such a fishery in Pa just isn’t there.

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Sixfootfenwick,
I have noticed it seems like a lot of not in my back yard type situations. Everyone wants stocked trout near their cabin or house. Perhaps the demand for a brook trout fishery with the potential for 10-14” fish just doesn’t appeal to the masses. Or is it a case of not wanting to give up one thing to potentially gain another. I personally would love to see one creek or watershed dedicated to brook trout just one. But perhaps I am in such a small majority that our voice just isn’t heard.

I could imagine a creek like Beech creek being a huge attraction if it gave anglers a taste of brook trout fishing 150 years ago. I think until anglers start working together though things like this just won’t happen. The majority rules and perhaps the desire for such a fishery in Pa just isn’t there.

Exactly right.

 

[jifigz]

Sixfootfenwick,
I have noticed it seems like a lot of not in my back yard type situations. Everyone wants stocked trout near their cabin or house. Perhaps the demand for a brook trout fishery with the potential for 10-14” fish just doesn’t appeal to the masses. Or is it a case of not wanting to give up one thing to potentially gain another. I personally would love to see one creek or watershed dedicated to brook trout just one. But perhaps I am in such a small majority that our voice just isn’t heard.

I could imagine a creek like Beech creek being a huge attraction if it gave anglers a taste of brook trout fishing 150 years ago. I think until anglers start working together though things like this just won’t happen. The majority rules and perhaps the desire for such a fishery in Pa just isn’t there.

I actually just think it's ignorance. Most license buyers don't know Jack about trout, trout fishing, how good PA has it, or what a native brookie only stream could be like. The average angler knows little to nothing about wild trout in general. They feel that they somehow cannot exist in nature on their own without man dumping them from a bucket.

This is slowly changing, though. I would love it if PA stopped stocking altogether. It may some day happen.... Maybe....

 

[5footfenwick]

Is there any biologist reports on streams after they are removed from the stocking list? 5 years after? 10 years after? What actually happens? Biomass increases? Length increases? They stay the same? Or is this a case of the Fish Commission not wanting the answers to these questions.?

I feel like this information would prove invaluable, not to end all stocking. But if a similar stream was being considered to be removed from the stocking list. It would at least show what could be gained, rather than just focusing on what was lost.