Big Spring Electro fishing video

[csoult]

McSneek wrote:
Next person that goes off about grip and grin photos should watch the last video.

THIS!!!

 

[greenghost]

What's the stuff they sprinkle into the tank at 2:10 in the 3rd video?

 

[pcray1231]

Great question.

I dunno. If I had to guess it's oxygen. Crowded tank, I don't see an aerator, fish were beginning to turn sideways in there. Oxygen may get short pretty quickly.

I know from my minnie bucket days, without an aerator, you can get dissolvable oxygen tabs which will take the oxygen level up to the saturation point pretty quickly. They worked really well.

 

[Millsertime]

greenghost wrote:
What's the stuff they sprinkle into the tank at 2:10 in the 3rd video?

I thought it was an anesthetic because the trout were splashing around a lot and difficult to handle.

 

[ROVERT]

I don't know exactly what they sprinkled in but I'm sure it was a sedative. They were having problems handling the fish right before it was added. I'm only familiar with the use of clove oil but I'm sure there are other sedatives being used.

 

[pcray1231]

That makes sense.

 

[LetortAngler]

Holy smokes, No wonder dead trout are being found after these surveys are done. You think they would at least have done the big ones first so they could get back in the water sooner rather than them starting to turn upside down in that tub. I give them credit for doing it quickly, but tossing them around like that seems unnecessary.

 

[SteveG]

The other issue is the conductivity of limestone compared to freestone water. It makes for more stunned fish that they don't bother reaching. Those idiots can take that raft and shove it up their rear end.

 

[Chaz]

Right now I am tying in batteries and a shocking pack into all of my flies, and retrofitting all others.

 

[Chaz]

greenghost wrote:
What's the stuff they sprinkle into the tank at 2:10 in the 3rd video?

I was told what it is, but don't remember, but the purpose is to extend the period that the fish can remain in the tank. Maybe Mike will chime in.

 

[Chaz]

SteveG wrote:
The other issue is the conductivity of limestone compared to freestone water. It makes for more stunned fish that they don't bother reaching. Those idiots can take that raft and shove it up their rear end.

The Alternative to to use a back pack.
Very few fish are harmed permanently buy electro shocking.
Notice they are clipping the caudal fin.

 

[JackM]

Consistent with what they were trying to do, I thought they acted quickly and conscientiously.

 

[Dave_W]

While mortality can and does occur after some electrofishing surveys, I have personally observed many such surveys on BS and other CV streams and I have yet to find a dead trout the day after a survey (they clip the fin to mark fish for the following day's survey). In many of these surveys, they literally handle hundreds of fish per section (hence the rapid measuring) and the fact that I haven't found dead fish is testimony to the relative efficacy of this survey method. Again, I'm not saying there is no mortality, just that I haven't personally seen any.

The material sprinkled in the water is a sedative.

Broadly speaking, it is my view that many folks who read this forum are inclined to over-react to the sight of a dead trout, particularly on legacy streams like those in the CV. Yes, we should all be vigilant, but in a stream like BS or Letort where there are very dense trout populations, there is always going to be some natural mortality and the sight of a dead trout or two is natural and usually not cause for concern. Fish are short lived and there is a high turnover in many streams. The sight of a dead trout shouldn't cause folks to assume that electro-surveys, poaching, bad fish handling, or pollution are necessarily prevalent.

Let's keep an eye on our beloved streams. . . but a dead fish is not a big deal.

 

[geebee]

wow, thats pretty shocking - no pun intended, what a crappy way to treat a pristine stream and wild trout - three guys tramping upstream disturbing sediment, bug and plant life, sending reams of detritus downstream.

then flipping wild trout into one net, flipping them into another then packing them sideways into a tiny unaerated tank until they are measured and then just slung back all in one spot

absolutely stupidity by the PFBC.

the correct way to do it ? - a powered skiff drifting downstream with two guys in the front with nets who lift and place the fish in a larger aerated tank.

the fish are then measured, placed in a second aerated barrel and when all recorded the skiff goes back up stream and the guys with nets do the reverse dip and release.

that's how they do it on the Test and the Hampshire Avon in England and have done since the 1950's at least, and they are largely shallower than Big Spring.

i'm really surprised the PFBC is so backward - not good for the stream or the fish, this must stop.

 

[ROVERT]

SteveG wrote:
The other issue is the conductivity of limestone compared to freestone water. It makes for more stunned fish that they don't bother reaching.

That's not the way it works. Higher conductivity makes electro fishing equipment less effective. The output of the equipment is adjusted to compensate for this. The reason you cannot electrofish in salt water is because the the conductivity is so high. The current passes through the water so easily that does not affect the fish.

The electrical field created between the cathode and anode while electofishing does not result in fish being stunned at distances unreachable by the netters when the equipment is set up properly.

 

[Mason5419]

I’ve been witness to so many acts of stupidity over the years that I thought I had seen it all until I started to read the blather on this thread. The comments are off-based and founded in ignorance. I am ashamed to call myself a fly-fisherman, but even more troubling is that this is a commentary on just how ignorant and uninformed many on the forum really are. Dave Weaver’s last post was the only intelligible comment on this entire thread, and to his credit was very accurate.

First of all, there is very little mortality associated with electrofishing surveys such as this; less than 1 percent but no more than 5 percent. From a population dynamics standpoint that is a wash. Look up the concept of a biological compensatory response, then re-evaluate your thoughts.

Secondly, the fish are marked on the first day of the survey and approximately 70 percent are recaptured during the second day. The missing 30 percent are not dead, they avoided capture. Electrofishing is not 100 percent efficient at capturing all the fish in the stream; thus the mark-recapture population estimate. Based on the total number of fish captured during the survey compared to the number of fish captured during the second pass that are marked versus unmarked, a population estimate is generated. For further reference consult Ricker 1975.

The notion that appreciable numbers of fish succumb to delayed mortality after these surveys in absolutely a product of the conspiracy theorists’ imagination. Fish are not left to die underneath the undercut banks. In highly conductive waters such as limestone spring streams direct current is used which is very “fish friendly” compared to other options. The “wands” are the positive and the metal plate on the bottom of the barge is the negative. When exposed to the electrical field, fish experience a galvanotaxis response in which the fish swim towards the positive field or the “wand”. If you notice in the video, the biologists push the anode (wand or positive) up under the undercut banks and when they pull them out trout are following them...galvanataxis.

Finally, I suggest that if you think electrofishing is harming the Big Spring Creek aquatic community, think again and consult the most recent biologist report on the PFBC website. Big Spring has been surveyed nearly annually for at least the last several decades and the trout community continues to thrive. So...if your looking to point the finger at the PFBC as to why you can’t catch trout...well use your imagination as to what I was just thinking!

Finally, if you have complaints about fisheries management regarding Big Spring or other waters in south central PA, don’t complain about it here. Call your local Fisheries Manager! As is turns out, I fly on a jet to get where I need to be, but I absolutely don’t ridicule the pilot and tell him how to do his job...thus endith the first lesson!

P.S.
The white powder is MS-222; the only federally approved fish anesthetic on the market. Clove oil is not legal to use no fish.

 

[ROVERT]

I've been out of the game for a while. My experience with clove oil was with a federal agency in 2001.

 

[SteveG]

I was not familiar with how the electrodes, work, I heard otherwise. My issue is the constant shocking on that section of creek, when just downstream there are sections that should be focused on. Yes, I agree there is turnover after the mortality of shocking, but the result is a reduction in fish size from the constant turnover. Mason, I do just fine on the Big Spring btw. I'm less concerned what the local biologist thinks, because he just gets muzzled by the powers that be, which coincidentally hold back the PFBC from being a better agency.

 

[tomitrout]

My issue is the constant shocking on that section of creek, when just downstream there are sections that should be focused on.

If they don't sample the same reaches, then the comparative data from year to year to year is pretty much useless....

 

[sarce]

I'm not thrilled with the handling either but at the same time I doubt it led to any mortality. Just traumatized them enough so they became harder to catch by non-electrical means

They really didn't spend more than a few seconds out of water throughout the process, and not to mention weren't played to exhaustion beforehand. Would guess they started rolling on their sides due to the sedative and not lack of oxygen in the bucket