ASHAMED!

Lyco, You bring up a good point; however, there are two opportunities for education that present themselves. You alluded to the first one. The second one is that special regs are not often necessary over wild brown trout populations. The portion of Penns where the extension took place might have been a good laboratory to evaluate ceased stocking without immediately applying special regs. There would have been an opportunity to evaluate the wild trout population response to stocking cessation alone and within a few yrs apply the special reg if needed. One variable that might have affected the population response to either stocking cessation or special regs could have been water temps, however. Time will tell if they are a limiting factor at that location.
 
Max-

Did their uncle Sal sitting on a bucket take them out for youth mentor day? That’s something great for kids that Pennsylvania has done for them.

There are plenty of opportunities for stocked trout very nearby that section of Penns.


 
Kid, think of it this way. At the cabin, roasting some dogs, sitting with company, maybe having a beer, kids want to go fishing. Ok kids, I will put out the fire, leave and say goodbye to company!

Think son, think! Does this affect you, your camp, your land, your taxes. Or are you a passerby, just using someone for access to please yourself. Did you ever think to offer a landowner a turkey for Christmas, or a ham for Easter.

Brother, I have bought lot's of turkey's and ham's. I always was lucky, maybe not in loot, but richer than ever with friends.

I respect everyone's opinion. Maxima12 always wants to take time and figure things out, before making a decision that involves, hundreds if not thousands of people. Access that is denied is not felt by few, it is felt by everyone, everywhere. The ability to choose has been limited forever.

Maxima12
 
When I go to a river or creek or the lake for that matter, and I see all the trash on the banks, in the water, I wish someone would organize a free worm with every piece of Metal/Plastic/Styrofoam trash picked up off the waterway Day.
 
I can never understand why people get so uptight about special regulation or private stretches of stream when PA has a ton of miles of stream open to fishing that are stocked. Its a shame that stocking of trout and especially big trout cause these discussions. We need to teach the next generation that they are not entitled to everything in life.

Ron
 
Don’t spout off about litter unless YOU- are prepared to do something about it.

Saw a post about Loyalhanna a couple weeks ago- some dude was complaining about all the litter and said he was never gonna come back. Good riddence to him. Most of that we’re from the massive flooding all last year. I’m sure he would like to know the Loyalhanna watershed group had a clean up day 2 weeks ago. Carry on.
 
2 points, 1 agree, 1 disagree. Kid, your good on this one. Most by high water, I see very few fishermen of any type leaving trash, however I do see people using the waterways for other activities leaving trash.

point 2, disagree. Ron, I would like my children and everyone's children to be entitled to all that is good. Enjoy all that I experienced good as a child.

Secondary point, stocked fish, wild fish, special regs, bait fish, fly fish etc. etc.

MAIN POINT! should we realize that fresh clean water and the ability to fish, is our number 1 objective and to open more areas to fish through landowner trust of fishermen. To make it a better place for all. So i am a child at heart, all i want to do is fish. Peacefully!
 
Frankly if I was given a worm for every piece of trash that I have removed - I'd be growing a worm farm.
 
I should have bought stock in the NO TRESPASSING sign printing companies. Posting is older than I am by a bunch.
Stocking/Put and Take is probably as old. End of WW2 the state had a bunch of big trout they stocked for the returning GI"S. I bet none of them were released.
Like most things in life it's done to us not with us. Democracy ain't so democratic?
How many people fish with their kids,today? Some states have lots of kid only places which I think is a good step. Over the years I've given back by teaching what little I know to kid that I had as students. Big kick watching them catch a trout.
GG
 
2 Points to ponder:

First, the trout fishing opportunities were increase with the addition of over 3 miles of trout stocked water on Penns. This means more trout fishing opportunities for kids and adults, alike.

Second, I have always had a very difficult time with the statement "Kids can't fish." They can fish. Maybe not as someone thinks they ought. In fact, I wonder whether when someone talks about not being able to fish bait they might be wanting to impose their views on the kids just as we who advocate for cessation of stocking and where it may benefit the trout are accused of so doing. The majority of young folks don't have much patience as I see it. Placing a worm on a hook, casting it out and waiting for a "bite" can get old real fast. One the other hand, tying a spinner on a line and casting, retrieving and every now and then experiencing the strike of a trout is quite different and, I believe, keeps the interest level up. And, who knows, if some older youth or adult would invest the time exposing the kids to fly fishing...well, anything is possible.

Stream sections which provide conditions favorable to hold wild trout are a very small percentage of trout water here in PA. I sincerely believe we need to do whatever is possible to at a minimum protect them. I also believe that C & R regs. allowing only artificial lures is the highest form of angling protection.

PFBC has indicated there is real potential for the wild trout population to increase in Penns Creek Section 5. Time will tell and I, for one, am curious to see the results of these changes.

Oh, and for the record, I advocated strongly for the changes and there's no way I'm even close to thinking twice about it. I even endured being yelled at by one of PA's most well-known fly fishers in a public meeting, to boot. While I respect the views of those who hold a contrasting position we will have to respectfully disagree.
 
Lefty, I will put it here, on the line.

YOUR WRONG!

MAXIMA12
 
maxima12, it all depends from which perspective you view it. You view it from a social perspective while I view it from a conservation/resource perspective.

Again, while you're entitled to your opinion I disagree.

Perhaps you'd like to enlighten me as to why my positon is so wrong? The only thing I ask is that, if you choose to explain, you do not include the part that kids can't fish since that would be untrue. I'm sure we can at least agree on that point.
 
Oldlefty, this will take several posts. I guess i will start off here. I believe anyone who purchases a license should be able to fish anywhere, anyway they choose. I have yet to find scientific proof that fishing with bait causes more fish mortality, than fishing flies. Some will agree fly fishing causes more by playing the fish too long.

Wild trout purists are a small minority. I tend to think when a minority decides what is right for all, it is descrimanation. Wild trout has become a topic mostly by the fly fishing community and many refer to these fish as holdover's. Why? Education on wild trout should come first, not last.

I am all in on conservation of streams, doing right, not stocking over wild fish in some circumstances.

Section 5. Most fish 12 to 14 1/2 inches. Lesser ammounts 16 inches, very few over 20 inches.

Now, let us compare a little. Spring Creek, Centre County. As long as i can remember, no harvest. Well, where did all the big one's go. There should be thousands. Why do you not catch 5 and 6 inchers on a regular basis.

Penns Creek, where is all the small fish. When studies are done you always here of the big one's. I would like to know the fry count.

Are the fish reproducing and at what rate.

Before you place your bets on the fish, your coins are needed for agricultural sound practice education, erosion, road runoff, intentional pollution. Fix this and the fish will thank you.


As far as the fish commission goes, less and less people. Failing financially, No money for studies, As they said, Penns Creek "has the potential" for a wild trout stream. Well, i had the potential to make a million dollars. Sorry it fell short, way short.


 
You can not seriously argue that Penns is not a wild trout stream, and if you have never caught younger fish
 
The argument for limiting tackle should be about conservation not that somebody is getting some sort of advantage over another. There are loads of studies that show a much higher mortality rate for trout caught on baited hooks than with flies or spinners. One study that I have indicates that simply baiting a spinner ups the hooking mortality rate significantly. The authors speculate that trout take a baited hook with greater gusto than flies or those made of metal and are therefore hooked deeper, the main cause of mortality. There is some indication that spinners, etc. have a higher mortality rate than flies, but some fisheries people feel that it is still low enough that this difference is not significant in the overall mortality rate of wild trout.
 
Penns is among the best wild trout streams in the state. To say it's not living up to it's potential is laughable.

There are plenty of studies showing the increased mortality of bait. Though I've always argued it really depends on the fisherman. i.e. with flies they rarely take it deep. With bait, it's up to the angler, but it can be prevented. The forked stick crowd kills a lot of fish. And it bugs me when other guys say "I have a bite", and let the fish take it a while to ensure a hookup. But there are plenty dead drifting stuff, or working minnies, and striking right away. I'd venture to say their mortality is on par with artificial folks. And the spinner crowd. I don't think they kill many either.

So I wouldn't say spinning gear equates with more mortality. I'd say it has the potential to if used in a certain way. But yeah, some use it in that way, and those few push the average mortality WAY up.

But yes, the question is one of conservation, not social. The regs should be as lenient as the fishery will take without damage, but not moreso. You mentioned spring creek. Frankly, I think Spring Creek could use a little harvest. I'm sure I'll get blasted for that, but as with any fishery (bluegills, bass, etc.), an overpopulated fishery results in lower size.

On the other hand, a class C population on a smaller stream can be devastated by just a couple of a-holes in a few days.
 
OldLefty wrote:
I even endured being yelled at by one of PA's most well-known fly fishers in a public meeting, to boot.
Click to expand...

Appreciate you speaking up in that meeting and frankly, we should all be appalled with that "famous PA fly fisherman's" objection on this matter.

I still can't fathom how PA anglers still hold this guy in high regard. It must be something they put in the drinking water in Penn State as PSU heroes with tarnished records are never held accountable for their actions (or lack of).
 
Timbow, your absolutely right, listening to him talk that night made me sick.
 
FIRST OFF, listening to any fisherman views is the upmost important learning game you will ever know. To say "he made your sick", that is why I call this ASHAMED!. The speaker at the moment, on the floor, has the right to speak his mind, you may disagree, but to put this gentleman down in a public forum, I feel sorry for you. No doubt this gentleman believes in what he speaks. You my friend should be ASHAMED!.

Second ---- Oldlefty, got to let you hang a couple days, going to the Pocono's. Guess I will fish over 20 days this month. Might have time for a go around but make it quick, Kettle Creek on the 12th.

Best regards to all, Keep on fishin, I will be back to stir the pot, soon enough!

And another thing, where are the Women Flyfishers? If your out there help old Maxima12. This is not a mans game anymore! At least log on and say, We love you Maxima12!

you got it, Maxima12
 
Maxima- quick question, what brand of cereal do I need to buy to get the magic decoder ring so that I may understand what in the hell your posts are trying to convey?
 
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