4 weight rod question

[Wharfrat]

I am thinking of buying a new 4 wt rod . I am looking for something that is on the fast action side. Possibly the Orvis Hydros . My fishing time is 80 % nymphing and 20 % dry fly.
What do you all reccomend under $500 ?

 

[Heritage-Angler]

For $517, this (free shipping). It'll blow the doors off the Hydros (and Helios).

It has a beautiful rosewood/nickel silver reel seat, too - not that cheap stuff Orvis is pushing. Something else to consider is that Sage has every blank for every rod they ever made, or they'll roll a blank to replace a broken rod. Good luck with Orvis on that one!

 

[StudentofTheStream]

HA I'll see your 517 and raise you (or lower actually) to 483 + 5 bucks shipping. Bigger Box Store Special!

A great rod. My buddy just bought one and I surely plan on 'borrowing' it a few times

 

[WildTigerTrout]

Buy the Sage! ;-) you will love it.

 

[jayL]

I'd go with the hydros at a steep discount and save the difference for another rod.

 

[turkey]

I've seen the Z's even a shade cheaper on that big auction site.

 

[ryguyfi]

jayL wrote:
I'd go with the hydros at a steep discount and save the difference for another rod.

+1

You ALWAYS need another rod. I just sold one, have another for sale and want to buy about 6 more. It's never ending.

Get a nice 6wt for tossing streamers.

 

[afishinado]

Heritage-Angler wrote:
For $517, this (free shipping). It'll blow the doors off the Hydros (and Helios).

It has a beautiful rosewood/nickel silver reel seat, too - not that cheap stuff Orvis is pushing. Something else to consider is that Sage has every blank for every rod they ever made, or they'll roll a blank to replace a broken rod. Good luck with Orvis on that one!

I try to keep a low profile on gear recommendations since I now work for Orvis, but in the interest of trying to set the record straight I will post some info.

First of all, without sounding like a broken record, rod choice is highly individual and one anglers great rod is another ones meh.

Secondly, Sage makes great rods, I should know, I own quite a few that were purchased before I worked for Orvis. LL Bean is a great store, I should know, I bought stuff there before I worked for Orvis. Orvis makes great stuff and is a great store too, I should know, I bought tons of stuff there before I worked for Orvis.

Now specifics on the rods. I own a 4wt Helios tip-flex rod - I love it! I also own a Sage XP - love it too. The action of the Orvis is similar to the Sage XP but lighter in weight, IMO; and the Hydros action is nearly identical to the Helios. Jayl bought a Hydros recently and test cast a bunch of rods and seems to agree. The Z-Axis too is a great rod, maybe a tad slower than the XP or Orvis and not as powerful on long casts.

Sage uses nickel silver reel seats and the Z-axis has a very attractive one. Orvis uses aluminum reels seats and carbon inserts to reduce weight. Nice looking in its own way. BTW, the new Sage One line has switched to aluminum reel seats to shave off some weight. Some of the latest blanks have become so light, the nickel silver/wood insert is very heavy relative to the weight of the blank. Given that, even the most lightweight reels may not balance out some of the newer rods.

As far a warranty and replacement of rods, Orvis does a great job of repairing or replacing rods. They have plenty of blanks for repair, or at least they did when I visited the rod shop in Manchester a few months ago. If your rod is an older model and cannot be repaired, Orvis will replace the rod with a brand new model equivalent to the one you purchased originally. Ask PaulG, he is catchin 'em on his WMDs with a brand new Orvis rod which replaces his 15 or 20 year old rod...he hasn't complained to me yet.

The Hydros rod is now offered at $100 off the $495 price making the sale price $395. You also have the option of receiving a $150 Orvis gift card with the purchase of the Hydros instead of the $100 off. Many have purchased a reel with the gift card.

As I said above, the Z-Axis is a great rod, test cast it, if you like it and it fits into your budget, buy it. Also, the Hydros is well worth looking into without and fear of cheap reel seats or any warranty problems.

Good fishin'...with any rod you choose.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

afishinado wrote:
If your rod is an older model and cannot be repaired, Orvis will replace the rod with a brand new model equivalent to the one you purchased originally.

You've obviously been drinking the company kool-aid.

I broke my Orvis 9' 4wt Clearwater Classic. It was 5 years old, and I was the original purchaser. When I sent it in to Orvis for repair, they said they couldn't fix it since they no longer had the blanks. They offered to replace it with an 8'6" Clearwater II. I told them I didn't want an 8'6" 4wt, or I would've bought one in the first place. They said it's either the 8'6" 4wt, or they'd refund me $175. I chose the refund of $175.

When I got the refund from Orvis, it was not for $175, but $150. They lied to me. 100% satisfaction? Not this time.

As for the Helios being a better distance casting rod than the Z-Axis, I disagree. I cast both before I bought my 4wt. Now I know it's a 5 wt shootout, but these guys disagree on the casting prowess of the Helios vs the Z-Axis as well. Heck, the Winston Passport ($200) finished higher than the Helios in their shootout.

My experience dealing with Orvis obviously may not be what everyone experiences. When you buy a Sage rod, and it breaks, they'll repair it - no matter the model, and when it was made. I just offered my experience with repair/replacement/refund with Orvis to show that you may not get an equivalent rod returned to you if you break it. I prefer to buy from a company that will do what they promise, and Orvis has failed me on that count.

I wish the OP luck in his search for a new 4wt. If you do wind up with the Hydros, and you break it a couple of years down the road, I hope you get an equivalent replacement, or the refund amount they promise you. Better yet - don't break it. ;-)

H.A.

 

[afishinado]

Heritage-Angler wrote:

afishinado wrote:
If your rod is an older model and cannot be repaired, Orvis will replace the rod with a brand new model equivalent to the one you purchased originally.

You've obviously been drinking the company kool-aid.

I broke my Orvis 9' 4wt Clearwater Classic. It was 5 years old, and I was the original purchaser. When I sent it in to Orvis for repair, they said they couldn't fix it since they no longer had the blanks. They offered to replace it with an 8'6" Clearwater II. I told them I didn't want an 8'6" 4wt, or I would've bought one in the first place. They said it's either the 8'6" 4wt, or they'd refund me $175. I chose the refund of $175.

When I got the refund from Orvis, it was not for $175, but $150. They lied to me. 100% satisfaction? Not this time.

As for the Helios being a better distance casting rod than the Z-Axis, I disagree. I cast both before I bought my 4wt. Now I know it's a 5 wt shootout, but these guys disagree on the casting prowess of the Helios vs the Z-Axis as well. Heck, the Winston Passport ($200) finished higher than the Helios in their shootout.

My experience dealing with Orvis obviously may not be what everyone experiences. When you buy a Sage rod, and it breaks, they'll repair it - no matter the model, and when it was made. I just offered my experience with repair/replacement/refund with Orvis to show that you may not get an equivalent rod returned to you if you break it. I prefer to buy from a company that will do what they promise, and Orvis has failed me on that count.

I wish the OP luck in his search for a new 4wt. If you do wind up with the Hydros, and you break it a couple of years down the road, I hope you get an equivalent replacement, or the refund amount they promise you. Better yet - don't break it. ;-)

H.A.

Hey Ed,

How do those guys stay in business:-o……lol

Sorry to hear Orvis could not replace the rod you broke. They have many of the older model blanks at the rod shop but if your rod is no longer in production, they may offer you a brand new later model rod as a replacement. Most customers are thrilled to get a newer model rod with the latest technology, up to 25 years later.

As far as the amount of credit you received, I’m sure you are you aware that Sage charges a $50 fee for all repairs. It looks like it cost you $25 for a new Orvis rod after fishing it for 5 years. Most people are satisfied with that deal, but if you are dissatisfied, I will send you a $25 refund to make it right.

With regard to the "Shootout" link you posted; while casting and rod choice are individual things, these ratings are generally a good guideline and starting point for anglers choosing a rod. With that being said, did you notice the rod they chose to test was a Helios mid flex? This a more moderate action rod vs. the Z-Axis, which is rated a fast action rod. The Helios mid-flex, in my opinion is more equivalent to the Sage ZXL.

As far as distance casting, the Z-Axis is a great distance casting rod. What I wrote above was that the Helios tip-flex was more comparable to the Sage XP than the Z-Axis (“The action of the Orvis is similar to the Sage XP but lighter in weight…”). I own both rods and fish them often. Many anglers, my self included, find the XP as has a little more umph (power) for longer distance casting than the Z-Axis. Again, no fear, the Z-Axis can hold it’s own at longer distances. BTW, I believe Dave Rothrock uses his Orvis Tip Flex rod to demonstrate distance casting, so it can’t be too bad.

Anyway, the long and short of the whole thing is when buying a rod, research to find which rods fit into your budget, have a good warranty, and fit the type of fishing you do. The next step is to cast away until you find one that you really like.

So Wharfrat, check out the Sage Z-Axis – good rod and a good deal, but, don’t be afraid to try the Orvis rod without fear of Orvis lying to you about the warranty or cheap reel seats.

No “Kool-aid” drinking here, Ed (just a little Yuengling Lager now and then…) ;-)

 

[WildTigerTrout]

Dave R.(Old Lefty) could demonstrate distance casting with fly line attached to the end of a broomstick or maybe even a 2 x4. I'll bet he gets more distance out of the Broomstick though! :lol: Sorry Dave I could'nt resist.

 

[RowJimmy]

jayL wrote:
I'd go with the hydros at a steep discount and save the difference for another rod.

Agreed. The 9ft 4wt Helios is the best rod I've ever owned, and after casting the Hydros when it came out I felt robbed. I have the mid flex. As far the 5wts go something about the rod changes when you bump up a line wt, the mid and tip 9ft 5 wts are both duds. The 8.5ft 5wt is a great rod though.

 

[jayL]

I have the 9' 5wt tip flex and love it.

 

[Tiltaxp]

I've broken both orvis and sage rods... both were at least 6+ years old from when i purchased them and neither had a blank to replace it with. Sage I paid for an upgrade at the time, orvis sent me the clearwater 2 at no charge. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from either company again but will add in that it was nice being able to drop the orvis rod off at the dealer (not having to mess with shipping it even though I did not buy it there!) instead of packaging, shipping, etc. Get out and cast the rods, that will be the biggest help.

 

[Wulff]

You guys should all just start fishing bamboo and get it over with. Check out Jeff's site, just for kicks.
www.wagnerrods.com

 

[jayL]

Bamboo is impractical. I really have no interest in it, but thanks for your concern.

 

[Wulff]

Why is it impractical? The price? I'm not being condescending. I'm genuinely curious.

 

[jayL]

Price, weight, performance. Aesthetics are what makes bamboo valuable to someone. I don't value those aesthetics.

You were being condescending, though probably playfully so, with your first post in the thread.

 

[Wulff]

I was joking around with that post. But if it were only asthetics, I wouldn't fish it. I know it's just personal preferance, but once I fished with bamboo, graphite doesn't compare in the performance department. Again, personal preference.

 

[jayL]

When there's a lightweight tip flex (tip flex in modern graphite terms) bamboo rod for under $500, I'll check it out.

The material just isn't capable of producing the action I like at a weight that I find acceptable. Luckily for me, I can't afford it anyway.

Same thing goes for fiberglass, but at least I can afford that.

If slower action rods were all that was available, I'd spin fish.