Your plan to end Stocking over Wild

[TheBluegillMaster]

Personally, I believe that some people fishing for stocked trout aren’t really fishing for “trout”, they’re fishing for just another fish to eat. I don’t think they care if it’s a rainbow, brown, brook, etc, only if it tastes good. In Maryland, they don’t stock brook trout so the only ones here are wild/native or swim over from PA or WV, and frankly that has worked quite well. If they were to keep stocking, I guess they should only stock the parts of the state that don’t have any trout, or large and popular streams and stop stocking brook trout. That way, more fish stop getting wasted and the PFBC doesn’t have to go through the effort of stocking mountain streams. More fish are also concentrated for the people too, that way the meat anglers, urban fly fishers, and those who want to catch large stocked trout win, along with the brook trout.
This are just my thoughts though.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I am sorry I may have misunderstood, troutbert just raised the possibility the OP may have mean’t “our management plan” for the fish not how to get managers to manage the fish.

That is one I have not proposed, i only propose plans I have heard fisheries scientists support and other states have used with success. You will never hear me come up with my own original plan because I am not qualified to do so. I hope no one has mistaken any of my advocacy for managing stronghold meta populations at watershed scale in a few places with c and r brook trout, no stocking, and unlimited harvest of invasive species is my plan, its most definitely not. Its fisheries scientists recipe for success and its working like gangbusters 20 min over the PA border.

As for all other smaller streams with brook trout that are not good candidates for watershed level management, not stocking them and doing barrier risk benefit analysis has been recommend, carried out, and succeeded at the direction of fisheries scientists in many southern states.

So in short if the plan was how to actually manage the trout i would not, and should not, ever propose my lay person own plan. I will only continue to advocate for what experts recommend and do with success.

 

[troutbert]

I am sorry I may have misunderstood, troutbert just raised the possibility the OP may have mean’t “our management plan” for the fish not how to get managers to manage the fish.

Most people on here agree that the PFBC & coop hatcheries and others should not be stocking over native brook trout.

But what is OUR plan of action to get the PFBC to end the stocking over native brook trout? What ACTIONS should we be taking to accomplish this?

That's the question.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Most people on here agree that the PFBC & coop hatcheries and others should not be stocking over native brook trout.

But what is OUR plan of action to get the PFBC to end the stocking over native brook trout? What ACTIONS should we be taking to accomplish this?

That's the question.

Oh ok I understand now, what I have been doing and asked peoples help with is the following.

Public(inside and out of angling) awareness: this sounds like an over used buzzword but for enough people to be obviously aware of the waste, fraud, and abuse they have to know more than “theres fish in the river”. They have to know wild native brook trout are a keystone species that add great stability to our forrest ecosystems and that invasive trout are not analogs or substitutes and instead can cause species loss and instability much like we saw with wasting of eagles, bears, ect in yellow stone when native cutthroat were lost. They have to know their fish managers are telling them to “prevent aquatic hitchhikers” and then spreading millions of higher ranked more dangerous ones at the expense of 10’s of millions of dollars of combined license/tax payer growing greener money, bankrupting the comission, and making them derelict in their espoused slogan/duties.

When you hear and understand all that PFBC has no leg to stand on and no legislator can say “thats ok”.

Its just that none knows we are fighting this fight and that has to stop So you all need to talk to anyone who listen ALOT. Write articles for Tu newsletter, media, popular magazines as I have. Make pod casts talk to legislators, write the governor, and call other agencies like dcnr and national forest and tell them they need to end stocking on state forest/dcnr land even if they can’t. Let everyone know there needs to be a change.

The second part is when you talk to your reps, govenor, or those overseeing PFBC tell them that other states are doing alot better and providing a model we can follow as a start that is free and infact saves money and completes objectives in PSU bussiness analysis l’s financial recommendations.

This Plan already exists its not mine its just been done elsewhere and I am copying it like a no talent a** clown. There needs to be no one stocking reform messiah in PA with one self made plan we just need a lot of dedicated, motivated really good talkative copy cats of other places successes working on these decision makers and the public.

 

[troutbert]

Probably not the answer anyone wants to hear, but PFBC has been moving toward reducing stocking over wild fish for years. I believe they're still doing it today but its not obvious or substantial over short periods of time.

It helps that anglers voice their opinion, but the biologists all (mostly) want the same thing.

It's true that the PFBC has been reducing stocking over wild trout for years, and it's true that the biologists (mostly) want to do this.

It's important to realize this. It changes the whole understanding of the situation.

Many people see writing a letter to the PFBC asking them to quit stocking over native brook trout as some sort of attack/assault/aggression/disrespect against the PFBC.

I see it totally differently. I see it as SUPPORTING what the biologists have been doing, and would like to do more of, if they had more support for these actions.

 

[Zipper]

Raise the hatchery fish and instead of putting them in a river/lake drive the hatchery truck to a town square and give the fish away.

 

[Roofin' Trouter]

Maybe Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources could ask PAFBC not to stock where native trout populations exist in State Parks and Forests? Does anybody else find it strange that DCNR advertises stocked trout and native brook trout on the same creek? If you Google fishing at Caledonia State Park and click on DCNR page you will see an example. Sizerville State Park is another.
I wish PAFBC would share pictures of some of the fish that are found in surveys. I wouldn't want the pictures to be stream specific but more of a photo gallery of "wild fish found in stream surveys" type a thing. Most people that fish for stocked trout see a 5" brookies in their head when they hear " wild trout".
How to stop kid's derbies? Good luck with that one. Where would you even start? There is just so many different kinds of groups that hold those events.

 

[troutbert]

Maybe Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources could ask PAFBC not to stock where native trout populations exist in State Parks and Forests?

That would be great.

How could we make that happen?

 

[Fish Sticks]

Maybe Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources could ask PAFBC not to stock where native trout populations exist in State Parks and Forests? Does anybody else find it strange that DCNR advertises stocked trout and native brook trout on the same creek? If you Google fishing at Caledonia State Park and click on DCNR page you will see an example. Sizerville State Park is another.
I wish PAFBC would share pictures of some of the fish that are found in surveys. I wouldn't want the pictures to be stream specific but more of a photo gallery of "wild fish found in stream surveys" type a thing. Most people that fish for stocked trout see a 5" brookies in their head when they hear " wild trout".
How to stop kid's derbies? Good luck with that one. Where would you even start? There is just so many different kinds of groups that hold those events.

We Tried it

 

[Fish Sticks]

Maybe Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources could ask PAFBC not to stock where native trout populations exist in State Parks and Forests? Does anybody else find it strange that DCNR advertises stocked trout and native brook trout on the same creek? If you Google fishing at Caledonia State Park and click on DCNR page you will see an example. Sizerville State Park is another.
I wish PAFBC would share pictures of some of the fish that are found in surveys. I wouldn't want the pictures to be stream specific but more of a photo gallery of "wild fish found in stream surveys" type a thing. Most people that fish for stocked trout see a 5" brookies in their head when they hear " wild trout".
How to stop kid's derbies? Good luck with that one. Where would you even start? There is just so many different kinds of groups that hold those events.

Its a good thought though and one many have had. I called and asked to see PFBC’s permit to release invasive species on state forest land/DCNR state parks which PA code says they would need. And I was told technically PAFB has jurisdiction over the water so that code does not apply and they just have to sit and watch the white trucks roll no matter how counterproductive it is to the forest/stream corridors their managing.

 

[troutbert]

Its a good thought though and one many have had. I called and asked to see PFBC’s permit to release invasive species on state forest land/DCNR state parks which PA code says they would need. And I was told technically PAFB has jurisdiction over the water so that code does not apply and they just have to sit and watch the white trucks roll no matter how counterproductive it is to the forest/stream corridors their managing.

A phone call is good. But it's just one phone call.

I've seen petitions from the other side that are many pages long, with hundreds of signatures. And they are organized in sportsmens clubs, and have good contacts with their legislators and the PFBC Commissioners.

 

[Fish Sticks]

A phone call is good. But it's just one phone call.

I've seen petitions from the other side that are many pages long, with hundreds of signatures.

Well I called 5 individuals.

Been there done that too, we had over a thousand I believe i forget

 

[Roofin' Trouter]

Its a good thought though and one many have had. I called and asked to see PFBC’s permit to release invasive species on state forest land/DCNR state parks which PA code says they would need. And I was told technically PAFB has jurisdiction over the water so that code does not apply and they just have to sit and watch the white trucks roll no matter how counterproductive it is to the forest/stream corridors their managing.

I understand they FBC manages the waterways. I feel like DCNR could at minimum post signs ,similar to the brook trout signs at the park on Honey in Reedsville, in State Parks and Forest where stocking occurs over a native population. Would a State Park Manager be able to approve signs for the park they manage?

 

[troutbert]

I understand they FBC manages the waterways. I feel like DCNR could at minimum post signs ,similar to the brook trout signs at the park on Honey in Reedsville, in State Parks and Forest where stocking occurs over a native population. Would a State Park Manager be able to approve signs for the park they manage?

What do the signs at Honey Creek say?

 

[Roofin' Trouter]

Well I called 5 individuals.

Been there done that too, we had over a thousand I believe i forget.

Maybe we need boots on the ground,shaking' hands type a thing will work?

What do the signs at Honey Creek say?

Says Brook Trout are the only native trout in PA, in some words. They have a sign for the white sucker too.

 

[jifigz]

Maybe we need boots on the ground,shaking' hands type a thing will work?

Says Brook Trout are the only native trout in PA, in some words. They have a sign for the white sucker too.

Being a Mifflin County native and having resided here the majority of my life, I was surprised to see those signs several years ago. I don't fish that park area too often, but they are decorations in the park more than anything. They are nice, they are informational, they are posted where they are visible, but people will never encounter a brook trout where those signs are.

 

[Fish Sticks]

A phone call is good. But it's just one phone call.

I've seen petitions from the other side that are many pages long, with hundreds of signatures.

Well I called 5 individuals.

Been there done that too, we had over a thousand I believe

I understand they FBC manages the waterways. I feel like DCNR could at minimum post signs ,similar to the brook trout signs at the park on Honey in Reedsville, in State Parks and Forest where stocking occurs over a native population. Would a State Park Manager be able to approve signs for the park they manage?

hahahahahahahahaha i’ll PM you

 

[Roofin' Trouter]

What do the signs at Honey Creek say

jifigz gave a good description.. I was surprised to see them there.

 

[Roofin' Trouter]

Well I called 5 individuals.

Been there done that too, we had over a thousand I believe

hahahahahahahahaha i’ll PM you

Okay. I might not get back to you until Late Sunday-Monday. Leaving early for NC Pa and I don't have internet at my cabin. Im excited ,Mountain Fest 2023(Ridgway) is supposed to be quite the event if youre into "Appalachian Arts,Crafts, wines,brews, foods,etc.

 

[krayfish2]

#1 cease stocking in all waters with class A biomass by 2025

#2 cease stocking in waters with class B biomass by 2030

#3 implement plan to decrease reared trout numbers by 10% - 15% every other year through 2033

#4 continue work to restore riparian buffers

#5 make it illegal for private clubs / groups to put stocked fish into a class A stream

#6 acquisition of more stream access for anglers on existing water an on new sections by relationships with landowners.

#7 free beer