sandfly
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Expert..... 
TimMurphy
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Dear Maurice,
I think the levels of qualifications are sort of bogus. They serve as a starting point but way too many of the qualifications seem sort of unnecessary to me?
Like you, I am of the opinion that if you can put the fly where you want to who cares if you know that you did it with a reverse belgian steeple pile cast with a tuck and a twist? Half those casts have names so that some expert can sell a book to a newbie.
As far as the bugs go, there are upright winged bugs, flat winged bugs with two wings, flat winged bugs with four wings and little itsy bitsy bugs that I don't bother with. They come in four basic colors of varying shades, greenish, yellowish, brownish, and grayish. That's all you really need to know, the rest you can learn at your leisure or not learn at all, the fish don't care.
Fly tying is to fly fishing as rod building is to fly fishing. It can be a supplement to your enjoyment of the sport but it is entirely unnecessary to be a skilled fly angler. I know guys that can outfish 90 percent of the fishermen on Earth and they don't tie flies at all.
Reading the water and observing feeding habits is key and far more important than knowing that the E. Pluribus Unum's are on.
Putting the right fly in the right place at the right time is 99 and 44/100th's of this game. All the rest is ancillary stuff that you can learn or not learn. Either way it really won't help you catch any fish.
Regards,
Tim Murphy
I think the levels of qualifications are sort of bogus. They serve as a starting point but way too many of the qualifications seem sort of unnecessary to me?
Like you, I am of the opinion that if you can put the fly where you want to who cares if you know that you did it with a reverse belgian steeple pile cast with a tuck and a twist? Half those casts have names so that some expert can sell a book to a newbie.
As far as the bugs go, there are upright winged bugs, flat winged bugs with two wings, flat winged bugs with four wings and little itsy bitsy bugs that I don't bother with. They come in four basic colors of varying shades, greenish, yellowish, brownish, and grayish. That's all you really need to know, the rest you can learn at your leisure or not learn at all, the fish don't care.
Fly tying is to fly fishing as rod building is to fly fishing. It can be a supplement to your enjoyment of the sport but it is entirely unnecessary to be a skilled fly angler. I know guys that can outfish 90 percent of the fishermen on Earth and they don't tie flies at all.
Reading the water and observing feeding habits is key and far more important than knowing that the E. Pluribus Unum's are on.
Putting the right fly in the right place at the right time is 99 and 44/100th's of this game. All the rest is ancillary stuff that you can learn or not learn. Either way it really won't help you catch any fish.
Regards,
Tim Murphy
ryanh
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OK who is John?
I went with Journeyman. I used to think that I was an Expert. Give it another 10 years and I will consider myself a beginner. Wow ain't that Zen like?
I have fished all types of water. There was about 4 years of my life where I fished blue ribbon water daily (hello 2.75 GPA). I have caught every species of Pacific Salmon. All of the common trout plus Dolly Varden, Arctic Char and Grayling.
Having said that what keeps me from ranking my self higher is my lack of hatch matching. Sure I will throw a sulpher in a sulpher hatch, but I basically don't put too much thought into catskil vs. parachute vs. spinner. I have never fished a cripple or emerger.
I went with Journeyman. I used to think that I was an Expert. Give it another 10 years and I will consider myself a beginner. Wow ain't that Zen like?
I have fished all types of water. There was about 4 years of my life where I fished blue ribbon water daily (hello 2.75 GPA). I have caught every species of Pacific Salmon. All of the common trout plus Dolly Varden, Arctic Char and Grayling.
Having said that what keeps me from ranking my self higher is my lack of hatch matching. Sure I will throw a sulpher in a sulpher hatch, but I basically don't put too much thought into catskil vs. parachute vs. spinner. I have never fished a cripple or emerger.
tomgamber
Well-known member
Ryan, In the original thread below...John Forey (sp) posted that he just likes to fish...A different thread was created for the poll. Not sure why just another thin Maurice screwed up I guess... :-D
JF_
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Tom,
I didn't vote until now (of course i voted in "like John" category.
I didn't even look at the poll until you mentioned that the category was in there.
And I like when anyone mentions that Maurice may have screwed up
:lol:
I have to go along with Tim Murphy's explanation, that makes more sense to me.
I'm heading up to Hemlock Acres this afternoon, will fish Penns this weekend. Too bad I'll be missing Paul G, he's on his way home today.
And I'll be watching PSU beat Mich tomorrow in the Frosty Hook in Spring Mills.
int:
John
I didn't vote until now (of course i voted in "like John" category.
I didn't even look at the poll until you mentioned that the category was in there.
And I like when anyone mentions that Maurice may have screwed up
:lol:
I have to go along with Tim Murphy's explanation, that makes more sense to me.
I'm heading up to Hemlock Acres this afternoon, will fish Penns this weekend. Too bad I'll be missing Paul G, he's on his way home today.
And I'll be watching PSU beat Mich tomorrow in the Frosty Hook in Spring Mills.
int: John
P
PaulGDaughter
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Paul G children are older than 37. 43 (Deneen), 40 (Charles) and 23 (Paul Jr). His favorite drinker I mean daughter is 43.... Hi Padriac... P.S my Dad is an expert FF. So was my grandfather. Me I just want to drink like you guys...
tomgamber
Well-known member
JF_ wrote:
And I'll be watching PSU beat Mich tomorrow in the Frosty Hook in Spring Mills.
John
Boy thats an invite if I ever heard one...Is PSU home or away?
JF_
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PSU is away.
fritz
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I'll go with beginner/journeyman for some of the same reasons that Padraic gave. Sometimes I could just give a darn if I catch a fish or not. But (as I tell one of my fly fishing friends) I can sure "look the part".
PaulG
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Pad
Damn I wish i was 37 but thanks!
I was between a Journeyman and a skilled journeyman. The reason I picked Journeyman is, Ive never learned to ty flies and I don't like to nymph fish so I don't do it.
I do consider myself a pretty good dryfly fisherman, I should I've been doing it for a long time. I think the thing that makes me a pretty good fisherman is, Im able to read the water, i guess that comes from being on the water for years!
PaulG
Damn I wish i was 37 but thanks!
I was between a Journeyman and a skilled journeyman. The reason I picked Journeyman is, Ive never learned to ty flies and I don't like to nymph fish so I don't do it.
I do consider myself a pretty good dryfly fisherman, I should I've been doing it for a long time. I think the thing that makes me a pretty good fisherman is, Im able to read the water, i guess that comes from being on the water for years!
PaulG
Acristickid
Well-known member
Journeyman- never gotten into trying much, I will try to be proficent at tying Buggers,hare's ear, PT's,weenie's to keep the box full and possibly save some money. I have caught a fish on a leader and a fly I tied myself this year.
Maurice
Administrator
Staff member
Tom,
I resemble that remark! :-x :lol:
Tim,
I didn't create the categories, I just was helping out(I forget who) because they started a thread and wanted a poll but the software cannot merge polls with posts after the fact.
TimMurphy
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Dear Maurice,
I wasn't trying to criticize you, I was just being my usual polite and respectful self and started my post with a customoary salutation.
I wasn't really trying to call out afishinado who started the original thread either, I just think that some of the things that many people look upon as accomplishments or goals in fly fishing have little to do with the actual catching of fish and more to do with personal thoughts about what flyfishing is or should be.
To me fly fishing is just worm fishing without dirt. :-D
Regards,
Tim Murphy
I wasn't trying to criticize you, I was just being my usual polite and respectful self and started my post with a customoary salutation.
I wasn't really trying to call out afishinado who started the original thread either, I just think that some of the things that many people look upon as accomplishments or goals in fly fishing have little to do with the actual catching of fish and more to do with personal thoughts about what flyfishing is or should be.
To me fly fishing is just worm fishing without dirt. :-D
Regards,
Tim Murphy
S
shultzy501
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I just voted myself as a journeyman, but I follow the old adage, "the more I learn, the less I know". I've fished many different types of water and can usually, but not always, catch fish. I never declare myself to be an expert on anything. There is always more to learn.
No fishing today - I'll be home watching PSU - Michigan. Its time to break that losing streak! GO PSU!!
No fishing today - I'll be home watching PSU - Michigan. Its time to break that losing streak! GO PSU!!
afishinado
Moderator
Staff member
Think of it this way; if you were going to pick a mentor to teach you fly fishing, wouldn’t the best person to pick have the skills to cast and mend in any situation to make the best presentation. Know all about the bugs and the best flies and methods to fish the hatch or in non-hatch situations. Know where, when and how to fish in all conditions on any stream. All these skills and knowledge had to have been learned on the stream and not in FF schools, or books and DVDs. There are a lot of good fly fisherman who catch a lot of fish on streams they know well. There aren’t many that have the knowledge and skill to go to any stream, anywhere, anytime, under any condition and be able to “break the code” and catch fish. That’s the true expert that I’d pick to learn from.
Not everyone may agree, but I think Joe Humphries is a great fisherman. I read where a he fished with a guide on a float trip on the Delaware. The River was high an off color that day, and no one was catching much of anything. JH rigged up some heavily weighted uncastble rig (for the guide and most other people) with some flies he tied up for the conditions. He hit the small pockets casting within inches of the bank, and worked the flies through every mid-stream pocket and seam. He came up with a bunch of nice fish. There are days when the fish are virtually uncatchable, but they are few and far between for a true expert that has fished and learned from every situation.
Not everyone may agree, but I think Joe Humphries is a great fisherman. I read where a he fished with a guide on a float trip on the Delaware. The River was high an off color that day, and no one was catching much of anything. JH rigged up some heavily weighted uncastble rig (for the guide and most other people) with some flies he tied up for the conditions. He hit the small pockets casting within inches of the bank, and worked the flies through every mid-stream pocket and seam. He came up with a bunch of nice fish. There are days when the fish are virtually uncatchable, but they are few and far between for a true expert that has fished and learned from every situation.
TimMurphy
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Dear afishinado,
Not to argue with you, but if I was chosing a fly fishing mentor he'd have to know more about where the dive bars and cheap breakfast diners are than he'd have to know about fly fishing BS.
There is this great mystical school of thought about fly fishing being something more than it is and personally I just don't buy into that. I meant what I said, it's just worm fishing without dirt.
Regards,
Tim Murphy
Not to argue with you, but if I was chosing a fly fishing mentor he'd have to know more about where the dive bars and cheap breakfast diners are than he'd have to know about fly fishing BS.
There is this great mystical school of thought about fly fishing being something more than it is and personally I just don't buy into that. I meant what I said, it's just worm fishing without dirt.
Regards,
Tim Murphy
afishinado
Moderator
Staff member
Dear Tim,
I can’t argue with you that FF CAN be like worm fishing without dirt. But my observation about the sport is that IT’S WHAT YOU MAKE IT TO BE. You can use the same wet three flies on a dropper rig all season, work them through every run and pool, and have a great time catching fish all day. Or you can choose to study the fish and the insects, tie flies to try to match them, learn to present them in different ways, experiment with different ways to fish with all kinds of rods, lines, and rigs, and get satisfaction in making a great cast or learning new things.
I was an accomplished bait and spin fisherman before I got bit by the fly fishing bug. Spin fishing became boring, and wanted to take up a new challenge. A lot of the skills needed are the same though, like knowing the fish, reading the water, and proper presentation, but I get 10 times more satisfaction from FF than fishing with a spin outfit with a lure or bait, even though many times I know I can catch more fish using a spin outfit in many situations.
I don't get a lot of satisfaction from days when the fishing is "on" and you catch 20 or 30 fish without much effort. I get the most satisfaction from the tough days where you can't catch a fish to save you life, or there's a hatch on and you cover every fish without a take. It's like a chess game where you try to figure them out with a different fly pattern, a better approach for casting and getting a good drift, or another way of rigging and begin to catch a few fish. That's what I love about fly fishing, there's so much more to it than chucking worms. I suppose you can change from red worms to nightcrawlers, but it's not the same.
Fly fishing can be as simple or complicated as you choose to make it, and either way you approach it…..it’s both fun and satisfying.
I can’t argue with you that FF CAN be like worm fishing without dirt. But my observation about the sport is that IT’S WHAT YOU MAKE IT TO BE. You can use the same wet three flies on a dropper rig all season, work them through every run and pool, and have a great time catching fish all day. Or you can choose to study the fish and the insects, tie flies to try to match them, learn to present them in different ways, experiment with different ways to fish with all kinds of rods, lines, and rigs, and get satisfaction in making a great cast or learning new things.
I was an accomplished bait and spin fisherman before I got bit by the fly fishing bug. Spin fishing became boring, and wanted to take up a new challenge. A lot of the skills needed are the same though, like knowing the fish, reading the water, and proper presentation, but I get 10 times more satisfaction from FF than fishing with a spin outfit with a lure or bait, even though many times I know I can catch more fish using a spin outfit in many situations.
I don't get a lot of satisfaction from days when the fishing is "on" and you catch 20 or 30 fish without much effort. I get the most satisfaction from the tough days where you can't catch a fish to save you life, or there's a hatch on and you cover every fish without a take. It's like a chess game where you try to figure them out with a different fly pattern, a better approach for casting and getting a good drift, or another way of rigging and begin to catch a few fish. That's what I love about fly fishing, there's so much more to it than chucking worms. I suppose you can change from red worms to nightcrawlers, but it's not the same.
Fly fishing can be as simple or complicated as you choose to make it, and either way you approach it…..it’s both fun and satisfying.
pete41
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The same ``it's what you make it to be" can be said for Redfishing and spinning or bass and baitcasting.Many other aspects of fishing or other interests also.
Enjoy ``your thing'' but resist the temptation to Expertize oneself in ones own mind lest you begin to believe its really relevant to others.lol
I have no idea what that means.
Enjoy ``your thing'' but resist the temptation to Expertize oneself in ones own mind lest you begin to believe its really relevant to others.lol
I have no idea what that means.
ian_brown
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My choice of beginner/journeyman seems a bit arrogant as Pad is probably a much better fisherman than me. That said, beginner didn't seem right because I catch most of my fish on flies I tied, and I don't get skunked too often (except for on the Tully with Jay).
I'm probably the exception among newbies; I do much better on dries than on nymphs or streamers.
I'm probably the exception among newbies; I do much better on dries than on nymphs or streamers.
Acristickid
Well-known member
I agree it is what you make it. You can be a novice, not know what is hatching and how there taking'em but if your catching fish you can still have a better time than some expert.
This year my flyfishing passion or aka "I have it bad" has risen to epic heights. Now the buddies I normally fish with are advanced-J /experts but I am catching on and making progress in my flyfishing prowess. I think reguardless if they still outfish(99.9% of the time) me I have more of a passion for the sport and enjoy it more than they do. Maybe it is still the learning and newness of alot of things but again I can honestly say I love flyfishing more than my AJ/expert buddies do.
This year my flyfishing passion or aka "I have it bad" has risen to epic heights. Now the buddies I normally fish with are advanced-J /experts but I am catching on and making progress in my flyfishing prowess. I think reguardless if they still outfish(99.9% of the time) me I have more of a passion for the sport and enjoy it more than they do. Maybe it is still the learning and newness of alot of things but again I can honestly say I love flyfishing more than my AJ/expert buddies do.
