Where were the Browns?

[Trey]

Headed out to Venango county yesterday to fish a small creek called Reese Run. Had to hike a mile or so to get to the mouth, but there was a ton of fish. Hooked into about 50 total. Lots of Brookies and a few Rainbows. But no Browns. The stream was labeled as a class A for all three species. Would have loved to hook into all three of them. But all in all I would consider my first trout FFing expedition a success. Thanks for the help to everyone on paflyfish.

I also fished the water the creek dumps into and didn't have any luck there, I did see one fish that went about 20" right when I got to the water from the woods. None of the other fish I saw were any larger than about 10", where are all the big fish, and the Browns?

Anyone here ever fish that water? Would love to know if there is an easier way to access the mouth, like maybe an actual trail!

 

[Fishidiot]

Sounds like a fun trip - that is a lot of trout.

With respect to access spots, many of our readership are tight lipped about small, relatively unknown trout streams so there may - or may not - be responses to this question. Nothing wrong with asking.

Regarding the apparent lack of browns - I'd suggest that one not put too much stock in PFBC population data when it comes to small mountain streams. Many of these streams see wide fluctuations in population and sometimes the survey data can be quite old.
It is quite common in PA to hit a stream that seems to have a lot more brookies. This is often the case, there simply ARE more brookies. Many PA streams are almost entirely brook trout (ST)*.

On the other hand, sometimes the browns are there but they are fewer but larger fish... and simply harder to catch for all the typical reasons.

"ST" is a common abbreviation on this forum for brook trout and is used by biologists. It is regarded as standing for "speckled trout."

 

[PatrickC]

Hey Trey,

There are plenty of browns in the Hemlock drainage, but they don't show themselves often. While the brookies and rainbows are active on any given day, you will find that you will work hard for the browns. Some of the fantastic nymphers on this forum can catch brown trout all day every day and you will want to learn that over time.

On small streams like you mentioned, those browns hold tight into structure when the water is low and clear. You can have some success moving them at the margins of daylight, at night, and in stained waters. Don't be frustrated by not finding a lot of browns on your 1st trip to that creek.

I do want to give you kudos for identifying a small creek like that on your own and then making the journey. I appreciate guys that find the places like that on their own. I love getting lost down in streams like that. On my FB feed this morning, a memory from 2 years ago came up and it was me throwing my hands up in the air on that creek after getting a refusal from a fish.

Be persistent. It only gets better and better.

 

[bikerfish]

glad you had a nice trip, no nice way to say this, but bragging about small streams on the internet sometimes isn't cool. fish them, take pics, enjoy them, but most of us don't actually mention them online. If you ask about a certain area, you may get some private messages with some info about certain streams. But trust me, with the advent of the internet, and the popularity of flyfishing in general, many of the wild trout streams in western pa fish worse now than 25 years ago.
I know the hemlock area isn't a secret, but no need to post numbers and stream names. This forum is public information, and next thing you know there's a few masterbaiters back there cleaning the place out. Yes, it happens.
I may sound like an old curmudgeon, but I'm not, I just like to protect our resources.
and no, there is no easier way to access that stream, and that's a good thing.

 

[FarmerDave]

A word of advice. A lot of people on here cringe and may even "criticize" you for mentioning small streams like that one, although it is hardly secret since the PF&BC started the lists.

I don't want to partake in that debate again, so just consider that FYI if it does happen.

Many will be more receptive to give advice by PM. Sounds like you did some homework.

But since you did mention it, Reese is listed class A for rainbows although it has lots of brookies too, and some browns. Not as many browns though they are there.

As far as your questions, I think PatrickC is spot on, and probably pretty accurate for the entire watershed. I'll just add that if you are looking for big browns this time of year and want to fish THAT watershed, I'd stick with Hemlock Creek.

Hemlock is kind of tough to fish though. The fish are there, but often don't cooperate. It's probably class B which good for Western PA.

The other class A in that watershed gets fished a lot for a small stream and does see some harvest, and you will mostly catch small rainbows and some brookies (lots of them though). Dominated by rainbows on the lower end, but I find it has more brookies further up. I'd imagine Reese would be similar, but likely not fished as much.

One more word of advice if you fish that other Class A. Please be careful where you park. The road up through there is private. However, there is parking at the end near Hemlock and likely no problem if you walk in. But you probably knew that. It's the same place where you would park if you wanted to walk up to the mouth of Reese. If you fish Reese again, fish your way up.

Edit: looks like bikerfish beat me to the first part. And he is right about the harvesting. I have relatives who live very close by. And another thing. They don't seem to realize that extended harvest does not apply to streams not on the approved list which includes that one. In fact, only Hemlock is on the approved list because it gets a small amount of stocking in the lowest 1.1 mile. But for some reason, they still list the whole stream.

 

[streamerguy]

What bikerfish said

And I agree with PatrickC. Brown trout in general, compared to brookies and rainbows, are much moodier and know how to hide. The browns in this watershed are no exception. Conditions can and do play a role, but often times they show themselves at random times. But they are there. Happy to hear you had a fun day.

With that said, if you specifically want good numbers of browns, or bigger average size fish, I'd try elsewhere. There's a lot of water in that region.

 

[salmonoid]

Agreeing with the others w/ regard to brownies...

Browns are generally wary fish and if the water is low and clear, they may not leave their hiding places to chase something that is many feet away. I've fished mixed species streams where I had brookie:brown catch ratios of 30:1 when the water was low and clear. Fish the same stream after a thunderstorm or higher flow conditions and that switches to 20:1 browns:brookies.

On brownie only streams, you can fish them in low, clear conditions and swear there are no fish in them, until you drop a wooly bugger or nymph beside a rock. Then, you'll sometimes see a flash of a dark shape as a brownie darts out for a meal.

Browns are negatively phototropic, but that tendency can be short circuited when they are presented with a close meal (or reasonable facsimile thereof).

 

[troutbert]

I agree with the comments about brownie behavior.

But keep in mind that some freestone streams of that size have browns, but only just a few.

And some have none at all.

 

[StarvinMarvin]

what gets beat more? a red headed step child or a western pa wild trout stream?

 

[Trey]

FishIdiot- Thank you for the all of info, and abbreviation!


PatrickC- I will have to try nymphing next time I am up there, I am more accustomed to that style of fishing anyway. Actually this is the first time I have seen a fish rise for a dry fly, and man what a rush! Everybody seemed to want to eat a caddis. I did see a couple of what i assume are BWO's in one area so i tied one on and nailed two ST right away, and then nothing else. Switched back to the caddis and it was game on. I also tried terrestrials for while in the bigger water and had no luck. That creek really was awesome and it was certainly a special experience to me. What part of North East Ohio are you from?

Bikerfish- My intention was not to brag. I guess i didn't realize that was the status quo here. I will be sure not to advertise specifically where I fish from here on out. My other passion/hobby/addiction is also very protective of specific locales, so trust me when I say I understand. I actually may have gone in the worst way possible, but I will explain that in my reply to FarmerDave below.

FarmerDave- Thanks for letting me know, again I didn't realize that there was an unspoken policy in place. And don't have a problem keeping tight lips. Thank you for the advice as well. As far as parking, I may have come in the worst possible way. I parked a couple miles North of the creek itself and hiked my way in, problem is that there was no trail most of the way. I used the compass and map on my phone to navigate, and it certainly wasn't an easy route, I can't see too many people being able to make the hike back especially without a map and compass. I did fish Hemlock a bit on my way to Reese, check out my reply to PatrickC.

I would love to hook up with some of you guys, I'm sure I could learn a ton from anyone here. I do like to get out alone a lot, and I am sure a lot of you do to, wouldn't want to encroach on that. But would certainly like to make FFing buddies.

My goal now before Steelhead season is in full swing is to land a Brown, so I think I going to check out a few of the possible waters that hold them this Friday.

 

[Trey]

Thanks for the replies Streamerguy, salmonoid, and troutbert. I actually took quite a bit of info out of all of your replies.

Starvin Marvin, Judging by the apparent lack of information in general online about these streams, probably the step child. If you run a quick google search you will notice theres not a lot of info. Maybe Im just looking in the wrong places, but I couldn't find much reference to this stream when I was conducting my prelim research, and certainly no personal accounts. I thought my report would change that, but I now know that it is widely known and just not talked about. Either way your comment made me chuckle.

 

[PatrickC]

You got the most civil response to mentioning a small stream's name I've seen on this site. We must all be simmering out in our old age :-D

Shoot me a PM the next time you go over and I can tell you how to access the area without a compass The picture I mentioned that was on FB today was taken by a now great friend that I took over there purely because he found the place himself, didn't want spoon fed anything, but did want to know if I knew how to get in without getting lost. We've fished way too much together since. Come to think of it...we're leaving for MI in 2 days.

 

[pcray1231]

I know this spot quite well, and made the trip into Reese/Hemlock quite often.

I also fished the water the creek dumps into and didn't have any luck there, I did see one fish that went about 20" right when I got to the water from the woods. None of the other fish I saw were any larger than about 10", where are all the big fish, and the Browns?

That one fish that went 20". Yep, that's where the big fish, and the browns are.

Seriously, even in the main stem fish average 7-10 inches, which is pretty fair for a wild trout stream. There are a few brutes about, generally river run browns in the 15" to low 20's class. In Reese, fish are gonna average smaller and you'll be less likely to run into the big ones.

None of these streams are class A browns to my knowledge. They all contain browns (all 3 species actually). But the main stem isn't class A anything, and Reese I believe is class A but not for browns. Second, they're rated by biomass, not number, and how many 4-10 inch brookies and bows make up the same weight as the one 20 incher you saw?

Your experience is pretty standard for me in that area. In the main stem, rainbows dominate, browns next, and brookies are relatively rare. There is not a huge population of any of them and a mid-day visit in summer with low water makes it seem like there's no fish there at all, they hole up in the deep spots. It fishes best when the waters up but not too colored, and the fish come out of those deep spots and into heads and tails of those pools. On a good day, I'll land close to 10 fish there. 6 or 7 bows, 1-3 browns, and maybe 1 brookie.

If I'm close to ending the day and I'm short the brookie to complete the wild slam, I'll venture up Reese where they are the most common species, and come in much greater numbers. If you spend most of the day on Reese, yeah, you can get into the 50+ range, but they'll be mostly brookies and average pretty small. Browns will be the rare one to catch.

If that was your first FF experience, you did well. It sounds like a typical day there for an experienced angler.

As for access, I don't know how you accessed it. But there's no "easy" way. That's a STEEP hill. Roads run high parallel to Hemlock on both sides. So you either park on one of those roads and deal with the hill (there are good paths/pipelines to walk), or you park farther downstream along Hemlock and hike way up in there. As was said, difficult access is a good thing

 

[FarmerDave]

If you parked a couple miles north of the the creek, you were on an old township road on the wrong side of Hemlock. I walked in that way once to fish Hemlock. Chose it because it was shorter to the part of Hemlock that I wanted to fish, wasn't very steep, plus I didn't want anyone to know I was fishing Hemlock. It was opening day and I didn't want to advertise to the freezer fillers.

I had assumed you parked on President Road right where the road turns south and starts up the hill to Pinegrove. It is about the same distance walk to Reese Run. But at least that way you can fish your way up to it.

There is no easy access to that one. There are some logging roads and pipelines, but I think they are all closed to vehicle traffic cept for maybe in deer season and even that is only a guess. Makes for relatively easy walking I guess.

Some of us will be at the Steelhead jam in October. there is a thread on the Events page.

 

[streamerguy]

FarmerDave wrote:
If you parked a couple miles north of the the creek, you were on an old township road on the wrong side of Hemlock.

Unless things have changed, that is all posted land. I talked to one of the guys who is part of the lease up there he said people have been cited for trespassing. Mostly hunters, but still. It wouldn't be a good idea to access the stream up there.

Fwiw, all 3 of those streams are very well known as far as small streams go. Especially since there are so few Class A's in the area. But still, these places can and will go downhill if the wrong people fish them. It happens, and from what I've been told by an old timer........the publicity really hurt the population on one of those streams. Imagine if there was a lot of info on that stream you fished on the open web. Would the fishing still be good? Something to think about. This ain't Spring Creek!

Plenty of nice wild trout water in the region......and very little of it is recognized as good wild trout water by the PFBC. It pays off to explore. Never know what you may find!

Figured I'd share this: The last time I fished the main stem I caught mostly rainbows and a couple brookies. No browns that day.

I fished a different stream, in a different watershed, that same weekend under the same conditions(pretty darn low and clear; bright sun), and I did well with the wild browns, with some brooks mixed in. Never know when the browns will be out and about!!

 

[FarmerDave]

streamerguy wrote:

FarmerDave wrote:
If you parked a couple miles north of the the creek, you were on an old township road on the wrong side of Hemlock.

Unless things have changed, that is all posted land. I talked to one of the guys who is part of the lease up there he said people have been cited for trespassing. Mostly hunters, but still. It wouldn't be a good idea to access the stream up there.

No, your other north.;-)

I think we are talking about different roads. I think the one you are thinking about is to the east and absolutely true.

Based on Trey's description, I was thinking T-317 which turns off of McCalmont road. McCalmont is the one that starts right next to Hemlock Creek at Route 62..

Trey is right, most people wouldn't take that route, but I did once. Not that bad of a walk other than the distance.

Keep in mind, I haven't been on that road in over 10 years. so I could be wrong, but pretty sure recreational rights were locked up as public by WPC several years ago at last part of it was. If now posted, that would be news to me.

Yea, all three of them are well known. Freakin Ohesians are ruining them. ;-)

BTW Trey, I likely know where you caught those brook trout near Cleveland, too. I found it 20 years ago without the internet. ;-)

Reminded me of home.

Don't worry, I leave it alone. I used to stop there on the way home from work just to walk and clear my head.

 

[gulfgreyhound]

Lots of water in that area to fish. Fall should get the browns stirring. Browns are never easy,persistence is the key. GG

 

[streamerguy]

FarmerDave wrote:
No, your other north.;-)

Oops! North, southeast.....same thing LOL. I was thinking north as in upstream for some reason, but that certainly isn't the case here hahaha

None of the ways are easy.....regardless of direction ;-) I'm A ok with that.

There's many better brown trout streams around there, with easier access.

 

[Acristickid]

Catching 10 inch or larger fish in small streams is the exception to the rule. Your gonna catch 20, 4-7 inch fish for every 10 incher.

 

[wildtrout2]

If nothing else, mentioning Class A streams on the forum at least gets people's curiosity up. Hence the 400+ views since this morning on this one. I usually just say "a mountain freestone" to describe my haunts. I'll give the county name sometimes though.