jifigz
Well-known member
It's a word I've used, heard for many years and probably have even read in a book or two. What I should say is out of curiosity I checked the official dictionary and it wasn't listed..thanks though Afish..
It's a word I've used, heard for many years and probably have even read in a book or two. What I should say is out of curiosity I checked the official dictionary and it wasn't listed..thanks though Afish..
silverfox
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Is it insane that 13 of 16 northeastern states have some form of closure/regulation changes between Oct and May? Seems to me that there must be some sane reason behind the commonality of regulations during that period. I fish 365, but I'm careful and selective about when and where I fish during certain times of the year. Regulations aren't made for people like us though.
Maine - Closed Oct 1 - March 31st
New Hampshire - Certain waters closed Oct 15th - 4th Sat in April
Vermont - Closed Oct 31st to 2nd Sat in April (some waters no closed season)
New York - Closed Oct 15th - April 1st
Massachusetts - Some systems closed 3rd Sat in Oct to 3rd Sat in April (some waters no closed season)
Connecticut - Certain waters closed Oct 31st to 2nd Sat April (otherwise 2nd sat in April to last day Feb)
New Jersey - Certain closures on certain streams and C&R on wild trout streams Sept 15th to April 6th.
Maryland - Certain areas C&R only/no bait Oct 1 - June 15th (mostly open year round)
Pennsylvania - no closure
Ohio - no closure
Michigan - Some streams/lakes closed Sept 30th to April 27th
Wisconsin - Closed Oct 15th to May 4th (some early season C&R only)
West Virginia - handful of streams are C&R Oct 1st to May 31st.
Virginia - no closure
North Carolina - no closure (some streams C&RAFLO Oct 1st to May 31st)
South Carolina - no closure (Some streams C&RAFLO Nov 1st to May 14th)
Swattie87
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PA in fact does have a form of closure:
Trout (outside of streams designated as "Stocked Trout Waters" or waters downstream of STW's) cannot be creeled from Labor Day to the opening day of the following Trout season. Check out the "Commonwealth Inland Waters" table in the regs book.
And even on STW's (and downstream areas), the creel limit is reduced from 5 to 3 for this time period. Sure, there are plenty of STW's that have wild fish in them, but there are far more wild Trout streams in PA that are not stocked. I suspect, this is intended mainly to protect wild fish in those streams during the Fall and Winter.
Not trying to be a jerk, just wanted to clarify as the prior post included some states with similar regs/setups...WV/NC/SC for example. It's not a true closed season, but it is largely C&R only for wild Trout in PA for the Fall and Winter. I think PA actually protects more wild fish/streams than those states and should be considered part of the group that has some regulation. FWIW. It's a separate debate as to whether more should be done, but to say PA does nothing, is inaccurate.
Trout (outside of streams designated as "Stocked Trout Waters" or waters downstream of STW's) cannot be creeled from Labor Day to the opening day of the following Trout season. Check out the "Commonwealth Inland Waters" table in the regs book.
And even on STW's (and downstream areas), the creel limit is reduced from 5 to 3 for this time period. Sure, there are plenty of STW's that have wild fish in them, but there are far more wild Trout streams in PA that are not stocked. I suspect, this is intended mainly to protect wild fish in those streams during the Fall and Winter.
Not trying to be a jerk, just wanted to clarify as the prior post included some states with similar regs/setups...WV/NC/SC for example. It's not a true closed season, but it is largely C&R only for wild Trout in PA for the Fall and Winter. I think PA actually protects more wild fish/streams than those states and should be considered part of the group that has some regulation. FWIW. It's a separate debate as to whether more should be done, but to say PA does nothing, is inaccurate.
silverfox
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You are right that PA is zero creel from labor day to opening day the following year on Class A listed streams. That only applies to "streams" designated as Class A. At least as it's worded. No change in methods during that period though. Not that I think many people are out swinging live minnows on Class A's from labor day to the following opener, but...
I was really only looking at regulation changes that were obviously ~ Oct to May with the clear intent of some kind of spawning/incubation protection as the goal.
I'll agree that PA then has "some" kind of regulation change during that period. That only reinforces the fact that more states have some form of closure than don't. Must be some "sanity" to that idea.
M
Mike
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In addition to Swattie’s observation, my experiences from decades ago were that spawning brown trout do not hit lures or plugs anyway, whether the trout are on the redds or resting in the tail end of a pool. They are in spawning mode. In addition, they are not like largemouth bass; they don’t defend their redds. Any angler trying to legally fish around spawning browns will soon learn how worthless it is. Even if a spawning brown would happen to hit a lure, it would be a rare event and likely not have any population effects if it was harvested. Year class strength in trout populations is seldom limited by the abundance of adult fish. That goes for many other species as well.
As for large browns perishing immediately after spawning in Pa, some do.
As for large browns perishing immediately after spawning in Pa, some do.
Bamboozle
Well-known member
So do I, much to my wife's chagrin... ;-)
krayfish2
Well-known member
Without a doubt, water should close in PA. Not closing it is a disservice to the fish/resource. Fish come from eggs and not white trucks.
While winter fishing pressure is low, there are days when it's overrun if you get a 50 degree day in mid February. Honestly, not sorry if my stance offends someone. Streams with high natural reproduction should close to all fishing somewhere between October 15 & October 30. Reopen March 15 to recreational angling. This gives fish undisturbed time to spawn and unmolested eggs time to hatch. Find a different place to kill time or a different hobby.
Yes, I practice what I preach and don't go to waters where there's the slightest chance fish could be spawning. Basically, shut it down in early October and start again in April. I'm also the guy who monitors the temps on wild streams. At 66 degrees, start watching closely. 67, I get antsy. At 68, I pull the plug while others keep fishing up to 70 - 72 which isn't necessarily illegal but I find it to be unethical.
While winter fishing pressure is low, there are days when it's overrun if you get a 50 degree day in mid February. Honestly, not sorry if my stance offends someone. Streams with high natural reproduction should close to all fishing somewhere between October 15 & October 30. Reopen March 15 to recreational angling. This gives fish undisturbed time to spawn and unmolested eggs time to hatch. Find a different place to kill time or a different hobby.
Yes, I practice what I preach and don't go to waters where there's the slightest chance fish could be spawning. Basically, shut it down in early October and start again in April. I'm also the guy who monitors the temps on wild streams. At 66 degrees, start watching closely. 67, I get antsy. At 68, I pull the plug while others keep fishing up to 70 - 72 which isn't necessarily illegal but I find it to be unethical.
M
moon1284
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This is true but most of the guys fishing for trout on their redds are trying to hit the fish. If the fish hits it's a bonus. And coming from someone who grew up lining fish in small lake ontario tribs it really isnt hard at all to drift a fly (or bait) into a fishes mouth. I think protecting the eggs after the fish have spawned is as important as protecting the vulnerable spawning fish which is why I am in favor of a closed season.
T
timmyt2
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Andy thats what NY has correct? Closed season from 10/15 to March or something right?
Swattie87
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Snow golf?
afishinado
Moderator
Staff member
Here are two articles with a lot of info and opinions on the subject of fishing during the fall spawn and winter >
https://eastcoastflyguy.wordpress.com/2014/10/26/the-brook-trout-spawn-controversy-does-fishing-have-a-negative-effect/
https://troutbitten.com/2018/11/07/redd-fish-should-we-fish-for-trout-through-the-spawn-or-stay-home/
https://eastcoastflyguy.wordpress.com/2014/10/26/the-brook-trout-spawn-controversy-does-fishing-have-a-negative-effect/
https://troutbitten.com/2018/11/07/redd-fish-should-we-fish-for-trout-through-the-spawn-or-stay-home/
afishinado
Moderator
Staff member
Hey Andy,
Just like you choose where and how to fish in the summer not to do harm, you can do the same in the winter.
Fish from the bank and avoid wading in the shallow gravel areas where redds are made.
Fish the pools, that's where most the fish winter anyway.
So if you choose not to fish in winter, it's your personal choice.
I'm confident those on here that do fish in the cold season do so with great care not to damage the redds and do harm to the trout.
Put on your longjohns and woolies and let's get out there and fish sometime this winter.
I guarantee the trout will be none the worse for wear....
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krayfish2
Well-known member
Timmy,
One of the earlier post provided season for something like a dozen states.
Tom,
There's a lot of guys that like to proclaim "I know what a reds looks like", "I take extra care NOT to step on redds", blah, blah. Do these people have fancy x-ray glasses that can see through leaf litter? I've fished with some seasoned guys that had to be shown what a reds looks like. They thought they knew but were wrong. I'm not claiming to be a biologist but I'm fairly certain that a half dozen guys stomping around to fish ....which results in silt being sent down over fertilized eggs will not help the hatching numbers.
In my post, I did not say 'all trout' water. I'm talking about streams that rely solely on natural reproduction. It could be streams that are top tier, improving or maybe a stream that's had a setback with it's population. I'd support all class A and B closures.
There are plenty of marginal or seasonal streams that could get "a truckload of fun" delivered to satisfy the anglers needs over the winter.
One of the earlier post provided season for something like a dozen states.
Tom,
There's a lot of guys that like to proclaim "I know what a reds looks like", "I take extra care NOT to step on redds", blah, blah. Do these people have fancy x-ray glasses that can see through leaf litter? I've fished with some seasoned guys that had to be shown what a reds looks like. They thought they knew but were wrong. I'm not claiming to be a biologist but I'm fairly certain that a half dozen guys stomping around to fish ....which results in silt being sent down over fertilized eggs will not help the hatching numbers.
In my post, I did not say 'all trout' water. I'm talking about streams that rely solely on natural reproduction. It could be streams that are top tier, improving or maybe a stream that's had a setback with it's population. I'd support all class A and B closures.
There are plenty of marginal or seasonal streams that could get "a truckload of fun" delivered to satisfy the anglers needs over the winter.
larkmark
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Reading the comments I have to say some good points made for closing in fall. I enjoy the fall olive hatches etc as much as the next guy but maybe we need to change our thinking. The stocking over wild fish is a no brainer. It needs to stop. And the stocking in fall and winter over wild fish is really ridiculous.
krayfish makes a good point about the often stated " I don't step on redds". Well maybe not intentionally but come on.
Some light fishing probably is not a big deal but now that some places get pounded almost daily all year round why not consider giving it a break?
Tie flies or take a hike. Or fish stocked creeks. The Keystone Lite streams are an option.
krayfish makes a good point about the often stated " I don't step on redds". Well maybe not intentionally but come on.
Some light fishing probably is not a big deal but now that some places get pounded almost daily all year round why not consider giving it a break?
Tie flies or take a hike. Or fish stocked creeks. The Keystone Lite streams are an option.
M
Mike
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I don’t understand the logic behind the idea that where there are good wild trout populations or in streams where the wild trout populations get pounded (a rare case, indeed) in fall and winter, late season fishing should be avoided in deference to the redds. If the trout populations are that good in both cases, the pressure is not hurting them.
Not that I subscribe to the following, but given the line of thinking that the redds need extraordinary protection, it would seem that one would be concerned about the streams with lesser wild trout populations more than those with good to excellent wild trout populations. I haven’t fished wild trout streams in winter very often, but I have no concerns about either in that regard.
Below freezing temps are not a good time to be taking fish pics out of the water, however, due to potential gill damage.
Not that I subscribe to the following, but given the line of thinking that the redds need extraordinary protection, it would seem that one would be concerned about the streams with lesser wild trout populations more than those with good to excellent wild trout populations. I haven’t fished wild trout streams in winter very often, but I have no concerns about either in that regard.
Below freezing temps are not a good time to be taking fish pics out of the water, however, due to potential gill damage.
Maurice
Administrator
Staff member
^^This^^
many more fish are spawned than survive to catchable size.
closing streams for six months in winter to acommodate "what ifs" is laughable. I dont fish alot in winter, but I dont care if you do. Nor do I want to limit your opportunity to enjoy yourself so I can maximize my desire to be a fair weather fisherman.
Fish on brothers...
afishinado
Moderator
Staff member
Agree with Mike and Mo.
Closing trout fishing for 6 months is a solution looking for a problem for the most part.
I believe the biggest issues causing high wild trout mortality are poor C&R techniques and fishing for trout during high stream temps as well as stocking over wild trout.
One can work around if careful during spawning and redds in the fall and winter but fishing during high temps is never a good thing.
Also improving C&R techniques is just a matter of education for some and for others nothing short of a frontal lobotomy will work.
jifigz
Well-known member
Obviously I am totally AGAINST any stream closure. I definitely agree with the above 3 comments. Wild trout are doing great and streams see little to no pressure this time of year. Here are 2 pertinent pics from yesterday. Clearly a redd and a very nice dead wild brown.
Now here is something to ponder. What about streams that support rainbows and browns/Brooks? Do we close the stream year round.
Now here is something to ponder. What about streams that support rainbows and browns/Brooks? Do we close the stream year round.
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krayfish2
Well-known member
In PA (unfortunately), better chance of seeing a mountain lion than a stream with wild bows. LoL. Yes they do exist but not many of them. The fall / winter closure would cover the majority of the spawn. Why can't we try it on a few select streams and check the impacts (if any) after 36 months?
PennKev
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I often give you a hard time for various things you post but I agree with this entirely.
