What killed the trout?

[larkmark]

I have been watching two good sized Browns spawning below a bridge. I saw them there on Friday again. Saw quite a few people spin fishing yesterday morning and then last evening found the one big one dead in riffle below bridge. I suspect it was killed by the spin fishermen. Either that or just stress from spawning. I know how people are when they see big fish. Almost everyone will cast to them and these big spawners will strike out of aggression. By the way a sportsmen group stocks this every fall even though it has plenty of wild fish. That is what brings the people out.

 

[Stenonema]

Unfortunately stocking trout for fisherman does not by itself teach respect for the fish or the streams. If there isn't enough fish for any reason, just stock more. This lack of respect for the environment and all wild things could arguably be the biggest threat that stocking represents. Hard to tell what killed your big trout. Hard to tell if your big trout was a wild big trout. Just stock more. My guess though..... Ignorance like on so many streams around this state killed your trout.

 

[maxima12]

Larkmark, this is a great post. Let's break it down some and see why it is so good! 1 involvement, seems you get around seeking fish, a tactic well done. 2. Spin fishermen, yes, they are seeking fish also! 3. Dead Trout, shame, I would also suspect, hooked but also, catch and release! Would it have been better to keep the fish? 4. Spawning, should we allow fishing during this time? 5. Stocking, with a population of wild fish? This is what brings people out.

I would recommend this. Bringing the people out is top on the list! Once we get the people, we get the power. More people, more voices, at this point of power, choices can be implemented in preserving the way we fish or change the way we go about it.

With the involvement of new people, I do see changes coming. How big and how significant, who can tell at the early stage. More involvement like the involvement you have, I am sure it will be a success!

Let' name this bridge so all may remember! "THE BRIDGE OF SIGHS".

Maxima12

 

[moon1284]

Hard to know why the fish died but there should be a closed season from oct to march or april to protect wild trout.

 

[silverfox]

Yet another reason stocking over, near, just downstream of wild trout is a horrible idea. Of all times to stock, during the fall spawn has to be the dumbest idea yet. As you mentioned, when it's publicized when the stocking will occur, you can bet there will be guys chucking hardware as they're dumping buckets. It's one thing to have it happen in the spring during in-season stocking. It's something else to stock/fish during the spawn.

I agree 100% that ALL trout fishing should be closed from Oct 1st to April opener.

One of the bigger issues though is the lack of control or regulations the PAFBC has on stocking by clubs/individuals. They have absolutely no idea how many, and of what type of fish are being stocked in a lot of waters in the state.

Since the state is lacking funds for the fish & boat commission, why not require permits for stocking? Nothing crazy fee wise, but it would serve two purposes, generate income and allow them to track what, and how much is going where. Then they could limit stocking in the fall to streams that don't support any wild trout.

I've reported finding stocked brown trout in streams that were supposed to be stocked with brook trout only, and the biologist had no idea. I think the biologists are as frustrated as we are. How are they supposed to manage a fishery when they have bucket biologists and clubs dumping fish indiscriminately all over the place?

 

[maxima12]

Huh! Wild trout, where did they come from. Evolution, i guess. Funny how much time is wasted on do's and don't over stocking. If we concentrated our time on water quality and just this, You know, encroachment, sewage, runoff, pollution, etc. I would bet, lot of trout everywhere! We practice in every direction but the one going forward!

Remember, I walk back only to pick up, what I dropped! What did you drop and walk back for today!

Maxima12

 

[timmyt2]

Isnt that how NY's season works? Closed from 10/15 til sometime in spring, yeah?

 

[Swattie87]

I don't see enough evidence to convict anyone, or anything here. Not even the sinning spincasters. We pray for their forgiveness.

FWIW - I found a mid-teens male Brown Trout dead while fishing a small forested freestoner a couple weeks ago. I saw a few spawners that day, but not many. The fish I caught mostly appeared to be pre-spawn, as did the dead fish. It appeared to have a Heron wound to its head, but the fish was not consumed...delayed mortality from Heron attack? I searched for the great blue suspect (or some spincasters to pin it on) but couldn't locate anything.

 

[Hook_Jaw]

Trout fishing should in no way be closed oct 1st to the opener.

 

[JasonC]

Why all the hating on spin fishermen? You can't tell me every single on of you has never touched spin reel in your lifetime

 

[Brown71]

No chance trout fishing should or ever will be closed from Oct to the opener.

As far as the situation you described, the fisherman COULD have caught/caused the fish to die. Or, the rigors of the spawn itself could have killed it. I see many a few dead trout every year right after the spawn, and the places I'm fishing receive about zero pressure. And yes, herons kill there share, and the spawn is the easiest time for them to do this.

As someone said, dumbest thing is a club stocking fall trout, in an area with good fish naturally reproducing anyway.
Makes no difference that this guy was a spin fisherman, if your an idiot your an idiot. I was fishing yesterday on a moderately popular stream, known for some big fish. I watched 2 different fly fisherman rigged up in 700 dollar outfits lol, walk down the bank and fish over a group of spawning browns, where 2 fish were in the 24"+ range, and the rest were all nice also. So theres folks doing this regardless of tackle.

 

[afishinado]

JasonC wrote:
Why all the hating on spin fishermen? You can't tell me every single on of you has never touched spin reel in your lifetime

Very few guys on here are spin haters. In fact many of the guys on here also spin fish like you do, or if they don't, they have no problem with guys that turn the crank to fish. All are respectful to the fish like you are, so no problem.

 

[Brown71]

afishinado is right, most guys on here are respectful to the spin guys. I finesse spin fish the majority of time, especially when after the bigguns, and most folks on here are totally cool with it.

 

[Swattie87]

JasonC wrote:
Why all the hating on spin fishermen? You can't tell me every single on of you has never touched spin reel in your lifetime

Haven't touched one since yesterday. Am I reformed yet? 😛

It's little secret around here that I spin fish too. I like to fish. There's times when a spin rod is a better tool, and times where a fly rod is a better tool.

(Out of respect for the forum, owner, and moderators, I do only at FF at PAFF affiliated events though.)

Any time you hear me mention this subject, it's TIC in reference to someone blaming something (inappropriately, or without evidence in most cases) on someone spin fishing.

 

[larkmark]

I mentioned spin fishermen because I never see them on the section of creek except right after a stocking. If you throw your Rapala or spinner right across a redd with active spawners you will anger them and catch one or snag one. They are already stressed so you will just add to it. I too am not a fan of these clubs stocking over wild fish especially this time of year. These club guys are idiots and don't even know or care about wild trout.

 

[PennypackFlyer]

My fiance is a spin fisherperson.....She lost her balance while flyfishing one day and in the process of catching her balance she spun around like 4 times. 🙂

 

[jifigz]

Hook_Jaw wrote:

Trout fishing should in no way be closed oct 1st to the opener.

Thank you for bringing some sanity into this conversation. Anyone who reads the forum knows that I AGREE with Hook-Jaw!

 

[jifigz]

On a different note I was on a stream this evening and saw a guy using some spinning equipment. More power to him. We were also n a stretch that doesn't see much pressure. After I went upstream and was coming back up to his car we chatted a little. We each caught 3 fish before our conversation, I caught the best one at about 14 inches. He caught 3 roughly 10" which my other 2 were similar too. So, he was throwing a Rapala about 3 inches long and I was using a size 12 nymph. Both had similar results and both had a good time. I have no problems with anyone who is pleasant to be around and doesn't leave trash or act like a jagaloon (that's not a real word, btw )

 

[afishinado]

jifigz wrote:
On a different note I was on a stream this evening and saw a guy using some spinning equipment. More power to him. We were also n a stretch that doesn't see much pressure. After I went upstream and was coming back up to his car we chatted a little. We each caught 3 fish before our conversation, I caught the best one at about 14 inches. He caught 3 roughly 10" which my other 2 were similar too. So, he was throwing a Rapala about 3 inches long and I was using a size 12 nymph. Both had similar results and both had a good time. I have no problems with anyone who is pleasant to be around and doesn't leave trash or act like a jagaloon (that's not a real word, btw )

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/submission/4842/Jagaloon :lol:

 

[wbranch]

I know how people are when they see big fish. Almost everyone will cast to them

This is so true! Just look at how guys act on the Salmon River. I have not really fished there in 35 years. My buddy and I drove up in mid October mainly because there was no water in the OH & PA steelhead streams. I watched guys in the lower fly section actively trying to foul hook salmon. There was really no pretense of fishing for them. They put on 2 - 3 #2 (7.2 grams) split shot on the leader. I looked at some of the "flies" and they were nothing more than about a #4 - #6 hook with a thread body and a few wisps of marabou.

They just roll cast it own and hope the hook winds up in a salmon. We didn't fish but just watched and in an hour and a half didn't see one mouth hooked salmon. I've seen guys chasing salmon through shallow riffles and trying to beat them with their rods or long handled nets.

Often seeing big fish, or knowing big fish are present, brings out the worst characteristics of some people.