salmo
Well-known member
I’ve been watching some brook trout fishing in West Virginia and seeing fish over 10 inches regularly. What are they doing that Pennsylvania ain’t?
wildtrout2
Well-known member
Hardman? If so, that young fellow catches some amazing natives on a regular basis. He just posted his PB native brookie video. Has to be in the 14"-15" range! He knows where to find them.
krayfish2
Well-known member
I go with protecting, restoring and listening to what the public values instead of listening to legislators. Could be way off though 😉
salmo
Well-known member
Yeah, but it’s gotta be more than finding them. It has to do with management.
wildtrout2
Well-known member
Right, and WV has the management. The results are reflected in those videos.
tomgamber
Well-known member
I'll go with having about 10 million less people living there.
M
Mike
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2006
- Messages
- 5,550
We had the 14-15 inchers in 4 ST creeks in SE Pa. Must have been the management😊. Can’t say if they are still there. Appears not in one case based on angler reports and appears not in a second case because the habitat changed considerably. Only one of the four was a limestoner. Even had a 17 incher caught by a PFBC employee.
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sixfootfenwick
Well-known member
It's because the agencies, landowners, legislature and sportsman are actually taking brook trout conservation seriously.
By targeting efforts directly for that species.
gardenandgun.com
By targeting efforts directly for that species.
Return of the Native Brook Trout
On the back of a determined West Virginian—and private landowners and government agencies alike—the vaunted and cherished brook trout just might be making a miracle comeback
gardenandgun.com
krayfish2
Well-known member
Don't worry Mike, the PFBC got right on that problem and resolved it.
Fish Sticks
Well-known member
When brock huntsman et al determined native brook trout couldnt use habitat work done with stream restoration in the shavers fork of the cheat wvu dnr stopped stocking it and it largely got rid of invasive trout species there in the main stem. Example of others atates givint brook trout big water. Give them big water get big fish. Manage them in tiny headwater trickle and stock bejesus out of everything below and trap them in headwaters get small fish. Backed my multiple studies i am happy to share.
Fish Sticks
Well-known member
Hard man posts big ones but one guy in VA posts 16’s not infrequently
Fish Sticks
Well-known member
Another state managing bigger water for brookies without stocking
wildtrout2
Well-known member
I watched a YT video that showed WV DNR working with a property owner placing large deadfalls, using heavy equipment, in strategic locations on a brookie stream to create good holding cover/pools. They said what TB always says, "wood is good".
They showed some areas where this had been done previously, and the results looked awesome.
They showed some areas where this had been done previously, and the results looked awesome.
The_Sasquatch
Well-known member
You are way off. WV is more poorly managed than PA. 100000x so. This state has done nothing but fight AGAINST native and wild fish. It's an embarrassment. I see more litter here on one stream than I would see in an entire year of fishing PA. I've seen that guy's videos. They are amazing. But it's a SMALL pocket of the state. I'm thankful what's happening in that small pocket, but it sure ain't WV wide.
Fish Sticks
Well-known member
They have 4 wild native brook trout management watersheds and a fee other larger ones not officially managed as such but their not stocked. Your right that these are in pockets but in PA we have no pockets of medium to large sized streams you can fish for trophy brook trout and expect to carch them regularly without running into invasive trout. Wv also stopped stocking invasive browns over endangered guyandotte crayfish and endangered candy darter because data showed invasive browns harmed them. West virginia DNR started their own conservation hatchery(different than sport harchery genetics wise) for brook trout reintroductions which they do after removal of brown trout or after liming of streams. WV DNR actually is doing a much better job than Pa because we have ZERO brook trout specific regs or management areas and they have 200+ Stream miles special brook trout management zone no stock no harvest we have zero in Pa.
Could be more litter but thats not really as bad as invasive trout, its not listed in EBTJV threat list and not WV DNRs fault
tomgamber
Well-known member
I'm more inclined to listen to the guy who lives there than the guy with the perception. 
Fish Sticks
Well-known member
This stuff is objective, science based, and the fact that west virginia has brook trout management zones backed by solid fisheries science and Pa doesn’t is publicly searchable. We are not all staring at an abstract painting or Rorschach ink blot test, this is fisheries science not perception. They have watershed level management with stocking reform we don’t. They have larger waters with trophy wild native brook trout dedicated to their conservation we don’t. They have a lot of larger native brook trout we don’t. If you don’t believe me that this watershed idea that WE DON’T USE grows bigger fish just listen to David Thorne of west virginia DNR. He lives there in WV i guess satisfies your instate requirement, his degree in biology and dedication to brook trout conservation probably counts for nothing but hes in state. To be clear when i say something on here its never my own idea its always published fisheries science.I'm more inclined to listen to the guy who lives there than the guy with the perception.
DAVID THORNE WV DNR BIOLOGIST: ON WHY WV’s WATERSHED LEVEL MANAGEMENT MAKES BIG BROOK TROUT, TAKE IT FROM HIM.
“They need to be a large, contiguous and well connected native brook trout watershed,” said Thorne. “This is a watershed idea based on a lot of the research I and other people have conducted. Connectivity between the tributaries and main stems is how we see increased growth in fish. They have larger habitat, more food available, and can move to different habitats during different parts of their life cycle.”
DNR looks to enhance native brook trout waters - WV MetroNews
Plan being crafted is the next step in the evolution of trout management after work to improve habitat and water quality for many years begins to pay dividends in West Virginia.
wvmetronews.com
BIG WATER DEDICATED TO BROOK TROUT WITHOUT INVASIVE SPECIES STOCKED ON TOP=BIG BROOK TROUT
how many more studies have to get published and out of state successful implementations of watershed managment scale brook trout management zones for this to make it to PA where we are stuck in immediate post industrial revolution fisheries management wise ???????
Fish Sticks
Well-known member
Going out of country tonight with no service. Hopefully when I get back PA has watershed scale management in one watershed and I hit the mega millions. Till then folks.
The_Sasquatch
Well-known member
I'm not saying none of what Fish Sticks says is true. It most likely is, but it's absolutely mind blowing to me because like, everywhere else in the state I see none of it. In my area, it's "business as usual", dumping piles and piles of stocked fish into streams 11 mos. out of the year, tons of mountain streams still running orange, people allowed to just dump their raw sewage into the cricks...it really is unbelievable to me.
I for sure will eat crow in light of what FS said-but the rest of the state is just so terrible, mismanaged, utterly neglected that what FS is like a totally different WV than the one in which I live.
I for sure will eat crow in light of what FS said-but the rest of the state is just so terrible, mismanaged, utterly neglected that what FS is like a totally different WV than the one in which I live.
Fish Sticks
Well-known member
No your actually right about that there are piles of stocked fish everywhere and the managementis very bad, far from what it should be, your certainly not wrong about that. For sure the whole east coast is still largely very primitive with their stocking over brook trout. Its just so sad that in PA we are far behind those who as a whole are still doing alot of things wrong. Some of these neighboring states may look like rock stars Compared to us and their not even doing that much really compared to what they could be. Its just the bar in PA is set so unbelievably low with the sheer amount/volume of state, unchecked private stocking, and lack of any brook trout specific regs or management zones. We have more flowing water than anyone and we set aside less for brook trout than anyone. PA has not done one single invasive trout removal to reclaim a stream and they have not done one successful reintroduction. The number done of both combined in other states in brook trouts range is well over a hundred combined I believe but silver fox could fact check exact number i have to go to the EBTJV website and dig up a video I saw 3 months ago. Overall your actually right that things are subpar from the stocking over wild native fish its just these focal brook trout management watersheds, conservation hatcheries, removals/reintroductions, brook trout specific regs, and consideration of stocked invasive trout species effective on threatened/endangered species is stuff we have NOTHING of sadly in PA 😭
