We need rain!

its a fracking town. a lot of people got wealthy there, Amish included.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/09/amish-fracking_n_3568399.html

so as ye shall sow, ye shall reap....

cheers

Mark.
 
Not saying it's impossible, but I've not heard of sinkholes associated with gas drilling. Even if they do sometimes collapse, seems like way too small of a hole and way too deep.

Deep mining, yes. Much larger holes, and much shallower. Abandoned mine shaft collapses, sinkholes form above.

TB, I'm not sure of this one, but in addition to mining, that area is also part of the moraine (end of a glaciation, and loose soils pushed ahead by glaciers are deposited where the glacial advance ends). Hence the name of Moraine State Park. It tends to make deep, fine soils. And yes, the streams tend to be very rich from a water chemistry perspective, like limestone streams, although without the big cold springs. Deep soils like that get underwashed pretty easily, creating cavities, which can then collapse to form natural sinkholes.

Sometimes it's sewer or storm drains that do the washing. An eroded section of storm drain will, over time, flush out the soil around it, leaving a growing cavity, which eventually collapses.
 
The story about the two Amish kids drowning is local to me. This is the first I've heard of anyone trying to associate the drowning with gas drilling.

Personally, I think it's as simple as the first kid slipping down into a deep mud bottomed section of creek and not being able two get out. The "sink hole" terminology being more of a colloquial way of saying "deep #censor# hole" rather than a geologic term. There are a few very deep holes on what is otherwise a very shallow stream.
 
Finally got some much needed rain here tonight - a good inch or two in most areas around the burgh.
Shouldn't have to water the garden for awhile now!
 
geebee wrote:
its a fracking town. a lot of people got wealthy there, Amish included.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/09/amish-fracking_n_3568399.html

so as ye shall sow, ye shall reap....

cheers

Mark.
Click to expand...

New Wilmington is not a fracking town. there are a few wells in the area, but it's a far cry from the mess in the southwest or the northeast parts of the state. The kids fell into one of the deep holes in the creek, just as pennkev said. I know the stream it happened on, and it does have the occasional deep hole.
There are limestone caverns under where I live, which extend up towards the area where that stream is, but no known sinkhole issues anywhere in the area.
 
bikerfish wrote:
geebee wrote:
its a fracking town. a lot of people got wealthy there, Amish included.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/09/amish-fracking_n_3568399.html

so as ye shall sow, ye shall reap....

cheers

Mark.
Click to expand...

New Wilmington is not a fracking town. there are a few wells in the area, but it's a far cry from the mess in the southwest or the northeast parts of the state. The kids fell into one of the deep holes in the creek, just as pennkev said. I know the stream it happened on, and it does have the occasional deep hole.
There are limestone caverns under where I live, which extend up towards the area where that stream is, but no known sinkhole issues anywhere in the area.
Click to expand...

Mostly likely not sinkholes, but potholes, caused by scouring of the stream, perhaps during glacial runoff. Some wire story probably picked up the sinkhole term and it spread as other news agencies republished the story.

Look at http://www.gis.dcnr.state.pa.us/maps/index.html?geology=true and make sure you have the Sinkholes and Closed Depressions category on. That will show you the location of known, mapped sinkholes. That layer is also useful to figure out if a stream in an area might be limestone influenced.

Western PA is underlain by the Vanport limestone formation (and other thinner beds of limestone and calcareous rocks), so there should be chemical dissolution of the bedrock occuring. But I wonder if the terminal moraine tends to mask sinkholes that form.

Subsidence from underground coal mines is a problem too in western PA, but the stream would disappear altogether if that was the source of this deep spot.

 
Finally got somewhat of a soaker in central PA.
 
Virtually none here.

Small showers here and there. Gonna effect drop yield.

On the up side, I haven't had to mow in over a month.
 
Good swath of heavy rain that came through the SC and heading toward the Poconos. Put in my request for a day off tomorrow...gonna go chase some rainfall.
 
So FD if you haven't had to mow in a month you are saving on gas $. There's a joke in there
 
An inch and a half in my backyard. Local creeks are blown.
 
We need rain. Now we have too much rain! We need rain again. Now we have too much rain!

Amusing thread...
 
we had a ton of rain last night. much needed.

a lot of berries on the trees right, normally a forewarning of a hard winter for the birds and mammals.

 
Too much rain!

Not enough rain!

Quit stocking!

Ahhh fracking we're doomed!

Should I cummup for steelbows dis weekend?

Is a 9' 5wt a good choice for trout?

PA should be JUST LIKE Montana!!!!!!
 
PennKev wrote:
Too much rain!

Not enough rain!

Quit stocking!

Ahhh fracking we're doomed!

Should I cummup for steelbows dis weekend?

Is a 9' 5wt a good choice for trout?

PA should be JUST LIKE Montana!!!!!!
Click to expand...

You forgot "wild or stocked?"
 
Here we go again......no rain for weeks and now a flash flood watch is issued. This year the rain hasn't been often but it's been substantial when it's fallen. Local guy is calling for 3-5" up the Susquehanna Valley. Brief rest and then tropical depression for the weekend. Looks like we'll finally get some water back in these rivers.
 
Yep - all because I was planning a day trip to Penns this Friday. Earlier forecast looked like any rain would only help, now the monsoon is predicted.
 
Just as a warning, there's a lot of uncertainty with this storm, and no meteorologist/model consensus at all. But a number of the models look very Sandy-like. Sub-950 mb tropical storm/hurricane grazing the outer banks before going extratropical and strengthening as it recurves into the coast somewhere between Virginia Beach and Boston, with the target on NJ.

Others show the tropical part of it as failing to ever strengthen or come ashore, and we get a normal cold front.

So, suffice to say, we could get up to 14 inches of rain combined with wind and coastal flooding, massive power outages, etc. Or, we could get a front and 1" of rain or so, spread over 4 or 5 days.

Weather services are remaining pretty hush on it, for now.
 
Just to have it in here:

http://collaboration.cmc.ec.gc.ca/cmc/cmdn/pcpn_type/pcpn_type_gem_reg.html

Click animate. Shows the future, according to computers. Updates every 12 hrs.

Currently showing massive front which passes us, goes off shore, decides to reverse and go back over us, then long term nor'easter setting up blowing rain over us, with the grand finale being a 965 mb tropical system (hurricane or remants of one) making landfall around Cape Henlopen/May, being spoon fed additional moisture by a SECOND tropical system sitting farther offshore.

For comparison, Sandy made landfall at 954 mb. So we're in that realm of things....

But, it's a model. Near term pretty accurate with the initial rains, but the tropical part of it is 6-7 days off so still pretty uncertain.
 
We'll have to see what mother nature hands us over the next 4-5 days.

I'll post updated flows on Sunday for comparison purposes. Stream gauges saved to my phone:

Swatara at Harper's Tavern
Current flow - 80 cfs
Normal flow - 110 cfs

Penns at town of Penns Creek
Current flow - 77 cfs
Normal flow - 95 cfs

Loyalsock at Loyalsockville
Current flow - 55 cfs
Normal flow - 160 cfs

Susky at Harrisburg
Current flow - 4230 cfs
Normal flow - 7500 cfs

Beaverkill at Cooks Falls
Current flow - 65 cfs
Normal flow - 240 cfs

East Branch of Delaware at Fishes Eddy
Current flow - 177 cfs
Normal flow - 500 cfs

West Branch of Delaware at Walton
Current flow - 45 cfs
Normal flow - 100 cfs

 
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