Waters with the Biggest Potential

[Fish Sticks]

I can’t imagine what its like to be working professionally as a fisheries scientist/herpetologist/astracologist to save/restore a species like hellbenders, threatened humpback chub, endangered candy darter, or endangered guyandotte crayfish where invasive trout species pose a serious threat and have to deal with people saying things like the above. No wonder they don’t do much science communication with the general public themselves.

 

[silverfox]

Did you let them know it was an invasive species? They should all be removed in favor of native fish. No need to create an artificial Disneyland type of fishery. Let the ecosystem sort itself out.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get some likes on this post so I will say.....
Brook trout, Brook trout, Brook trout, Brook trout

You do understand people who value native fish view brook trout in places where they don't belong the same way they view brown trout or rainbow trout where they don't belong, right? I hope they rotenone or eradicate every brook trout they can find out west (or abroad) where they're invasive.

I get the impression people think this is all about brook trout because people prefer the species, or this is some kind of favoritism competition. If that's the case, you're missing the point. By a mile.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Your right though kray they are invasive over there where they did not evolve to interact sustainably with the native fauna.

-study done in sweden where brown trout native brook trout invasive

“ Öhlund (2002) found it likely that brook trout had a negative impact on brown trout in terms of lower growth rate, delayed maturation and higher apparent mortality in sympatric populations.”

https://www.nobanis.org/globalassets/speciesinfo/s/salvelinus-fontinalis/salvelinus-fontinalis.pdf

 

[Fish Sticks]

Did you let them know it was an invasive species? They should all be removed in favor of native fish. No need to create an artificial Disneyland type of fishery. Let the ecosystem sort itself out.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get some likes on this post so I will say.....
Brook trout, Brook trout, Brook trout, Brook trout

If a brook trout is invasive its invasive, its not about the species its about the ecosystem( functions better with native species). I support your calls to do removal on that Swedish brook trout stream.

 

[krayfish2]

You do understand people who value native fish view brook trout in places where they don't belong the same way they view brown trout or rainbow trout where they don't belong, right? I hope they rotenone or eradicate every brook trout they can find out west (or abroad) where they're invasive.

I get the impression people think this is all about brook trout because people prefer the species, or this is some kind of favoritism competition. If that's the case, you're missing the point. By a mile.

I understand very little but try hard. And got the predicted reactions when I suggested removal of invasive brook trout. I'll be honest, I'm happy to have trout to fish for. If my only option was 8" brook trout, I'd probably quit fly fishing. Just my feelings on the subject.

 

[silverfox]

I understand very little but try hard. And got the predicted reactions when I suggested removal of invasive brook trout. I'll be honest, I'm happy to have trout to fish for. If my only option was 8" brook trout, I'd probably quit fly fishing. Just my feelings on the subject.

For the record, I'm not suggesting we get rid of every nonnative. My comment about eradicating brook trout out west was to make a point that it's not about what fish I like or prefer. Realistically, it's not practical or possible in most cases to do anything about the nonnatives, so they're here to stay. You won't have to worry about only having 8-inch brook trout to fish for. That will never happen.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I understand very little but try hard. And got the predicted reactions when I suggested removal of invasive brook trout. I'll be honest, I'm happy to have trout to fish for. If my only option was 8" brook trout, I'd probably quit fly fishing. Just my feelings on the subject.

I don’t take offense, what people like to fish for is what they like to fish for. No ones trying to tell people what to go fishing for.

Like silverfox said, no ones in danger of not having invasive trout to fish for, its quite the opposite.

At the end of the day fishing and conservation are two different activities with two very different end goals. If we continued enjoying fishing for invasive trout in the places we cannot remove them anyway but we just advocated that PFBC manage/reclaim some streams for native brook trout where possible to the benefit of all the other organisms in that stream, we would be able to participate successfully in both arenas.

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

The culture thing goes to different countries too.

I had the opportunity to fish the Alps in Switzerland on 2 separate trips. Catch & Release is illegal there, period. There's a sizable number of people who have the attitude that it's morally fine to fish for food, but fishing for sport is animal cruelty!

I hired a guide there and he's a proponent of the western idea of conservation. I can tell you a whole lotta fish accidently wiggled off at my feet. All of them, in fact. Unbelievable, right after taking their picture too.

I was interested in fishing on an Indian Reservation bordering the Clearwater River in Idaho. The reservation regs prohibited catch and release, so I did not bother. My guess is that a different ethic applies there, one in which all game is regarded as a gift, not to be squandered. My attitude is, if I release the fish, doesn't that give you the opportunity to catch and keep it? Apparently doesn't fly on the reservation.

 

[troutbert]

I was interested in fishing on an Indian Reservation bordering the Clearwater River in Idaho. The reservation regs prohibited catch and release, so I did not bother. My guess is that a different ethic applies there, one in which all game is regarded as a gift, not to be squandered. My attitude is, if I release the fish, doesn't that give you the opportunity to catch and keep it? Apparently doesn't fly on the reservation.

"Don't play with your food."

 

[RoyBWalko]

Moshannon Creek is one of the best option to go.

 

[troutbert]

Moshannon Creek has been mentioned several times. And I agree that it would be great if the acid mine drainage would be cleaned up. And I think that will happen.

But when the AMD is cleaned up, they will probably stock it with hatchery trout.

 

[Swattie87]

Moshannon Creek has been mentioned several times. And I agree that it would be great if the acid mine drainage would be cleaned up. And I think that will happen.

But when the AMD is cleaned up, they will probably stock it with hatchery trout.

What is the status of Black Moshannon Creek as far as its capability for supporting wild Trout? It’s not as impaired as the main stem correct?

(I knows it’s on the Nat Repro for most of its length, but is it a viable decent fishery? Brookies, Browns, or both?)

 

[troutbert]

What is the status of Black Moshannon Creek as far as its capability for supporting wild Trout? It’s not as impaired as the main stem correct?

(I knows it’s on the Nat Repro for most of its length, but is it a viable decent fishery? Brookies, Browns, or both?)

Black Moshannon Creek is in pretty good shape. It receives some mine drainage, but not very much.

The first stretch below the dam gets very warm because of flow from the lake and I think there are very few wild trout there.

But not very far downstream some groundwater comes in and the gradient increases and wild trout appear. By the time you reach the first road bridge below the dam, there are wild trout. And from there to the mouth. A mixture of brookies and browns. Overall, I think more browns than brookies.

It's stocked with hatchery trout and it gets hit hard in the early season. I've seen hordes of people camping along the stream on opening weekend, near the I80 overpass. Tents, trailers, ATVs running around, bonfires, etc.

The fishing for wild trout is "viable", but it's not loaded. I don't know what "Class" the PFBC considers it. You often catch a mix of stockies and wildies. Some stretches are much better than others.

It gets warm in the summer, so that's not the time to fish there.

 

[Swattie87]

Black Moshannon Creek is in pretty good shape. It receives some mine drainage, but not very much.

The first stretch below the dam gets very warm because of flow from the lake and I think there are very few wild trout there.

But not very far downstream some groundwater comes in and the gradient increases and wild trout appear. By the time you reach the first road bridge below the dam, there are wild trout. And from there to the mouth. A mixture of brookies and browns. Overall, I think more browns than brookies.

It's stocked with hatchery trout and it gets hit hard in the early season. I've seen hordes of people camping along the stream on opening weekend, near the I80 overpass. Tents, trailers, ATVs running around, bonfires, etc.

The fishing for wild trout is "viable", but it's not loaded. I don't know what "Class" the PFBC considers it. You often catch a mix of stockies and wildies. Some stretches are much better than others.

It gets warm in the summer, so that's not the time to fish there.

Thanks Dwight. Looks like my kinda place, from the maps. Roadless stretches, etc. I’ll put in on “the list”. I have an idea for some potential Fall lake run Brookies not far from there. May make a weekend of it now.

 

[Acristickid]

I recall it being dark “tannic”. Similar to Clear Shade Creek- which isn’t all that clear.

 

[jifigz]

Black Mo is a very worthwhile stream to fish. There is actually a lot of fun and adventure to be had in that section of Moshannon State Forest. I will be there in little over a month to backpack one of my favorite trails, the AFT. I have done it lots of times.

If you want more info, PM me Swattie. But finding things out about Black Mo and its tribs just let me know. I generally take a overnight hiking and fishing trip in there once a year.

 

[silverfox]

I'd also recommend Black Bear Run and, in general, explore some of the tributaries off the east side of Moshannon creek. I helped with some sampling in Black Bear about 2 years ago and was impressed by that little stream. It's scenic up in there. It's been surprising where we've seen brook trout in some of the more remote areas too.

Also, I have to plug Warriors Mark Wingshooting. Eric and Bernadette are great people and will allow you to fish upper Moshannon if you're staying on the property. Upper Moshannon is an awesome brookie stream. If you're into wingshooting and sporting clays you should have a blast there. Pun intended. I think I've shot most sporting clays ranges in PA at this point, and Warriors Mark is still one of my favorites, if not my overall favorite.

 

[skybay]

Yough is the big potential in W PA, and is recovering.

Health of the river depends mostly from land developers and deep mine expansion projects.
PGH rivers already faced famous history with coal/mines and are on the way of slow recovery.
I hope it will progress this way.

 

[krayfish2]

Unless there's fish spawning mid river, the lack of spawning tribs hurts it's potential.... otherwise, I'd agree

 

[jifigz]

The first stretch below the dam gets very warm because of flow from the lake and I think there are very few wild trout there.

This is why I never understood this to be a "delayed harvest" stretch. Black Mo lake is shallow and warms quickly. But once you get to the tribs below the lake the stream definitely improves.