stecal
Member
Uh oh. I hope this doesn't lead to a drop in quality. Some hope in that the Vista Consumer side of their business is moving to Montana.
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Nocktavius
Well-known member
Based on the new waders I just bought that have an absolute trash fit and require the use of their propriety studs that just fall out immediately I’m not sure they can get much worse.
pcray1231
Well-known member
The quality at Cabelas has been falling for years and years. They sell good brands, then replicate the good branded stuff with Cabelas house brands, which is initially good quality. They push the good brands to internet only, causing sales of said brand to fall and people to buy the Cabelas brand. Once the Cabelas brand dominates sales, they reduce the quality of it.
jifigz
Well-known member
Sure. All for the sake of cheaper costs to the company and more profits. Customers' dissatisfaction then spawns new companies and brands with higher quality and the customer doesn't mind paying more because they want quality. Then this company sees the opportunity for more dollars and the cycle repeats. Not always, of course, but this is the rise and fall of brands and no brand/chain/store is safe from it.
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CRB
Well-known member
I may have to the same. Orvis customer care is very good.
BrookieChaser
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2013
- Messages
- 2,479
First Remington, then Sage, now Simms...
Bamboozle
Well-known member
In the case of some companies & products, that quality reduction or other undesirable changes in fit, features and other factors is because of outsourcing.
They do a contract with an overseas manufacturer and when that contract expires, they shop the item elsewhere or look for a way to cut costs with the same manufacturer because the new contract price goes up.
Another consequence when the contact runs out, other companies may get the original manufacturer to do a knock-off.
It's a vicious cycle and why I always buy more of something I like than I need at once because if it is an outsourced product, I know for sure it will change for the worse or be discontinued.
I also try mightily to buy from companies that make their own stuff in house or have it made down the road.
They do a contract with an overseas manufacturer and when that contract expires, they shop the item elsewhere or look for a way to cut costs with the same manufacturer because the new contract price goes up.
Another consequence when the contact runs out, other companies may get the original manufacturer to do a knock-off.
It's a vicious cycle and why I always buy more of something I like than I need at once because if it is an outsourced product, I know for sure it will change for the worse or be discontinued.
I also try mightily to buy from companies that make their own stuff in house or have it made down the road.
S
Sylvaneous
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2006
- Messages
- 961
My thoughts exactly. HOWEVER, Vista has many good brands that have held-up over the years in shooting like Speer and Alliant/Hercules.
use2wuz
Active member
<sigh>
DomR
Active member
That statement is testament to why Orvis has endured and faired so well for so long. They maintain quality and customer service but also aren't completely greedy about profit. In there model everyone gets to eat.
Bamboozle
Well-known member
I'm a huge fan of Orvis however, they also had/have issues with stuff they outsource and even some QC issues with rods THEY make in Vermont. I've also seen more than a few occasions where they seem to ignore bad reviews of those products on their website.
Maybe they make good if the complainant contacts them directly for resolution, however that's no excuse for selling $#!+ for top dollar in the first place.
Same with L.L. Bean, another great company with great customer service that often sells overpriced junk.
There must be a reason and that reason is and always will be profits. I realizes this as much as the next guy but there WAS a time in both company's histories when the good stuff vastly outweighed the crap.
jifigz
Well-known member
I think blaming outsourcing is a little sad. It is not outsourcing. It is because they want to produce and sell junk and overcharge and make bigger profits. There are plenty of countries where manufacturing and quality are level with or far exceed the United States in a variety of market products. We don't do anything special here that inherently makes us better at manufacturing. I like buying made in the USA stuff because it might keep someone here having a job, not because we make better stuff.
Nymph-wristed
Well-known member
+1
If you want to know if something at LL Bean or Orvis was crap, it is likely in the sale bin and the outlet stores. Bean's BRAND was that 100% guarantee. That is what I meant by my original reply about Cabela's too. I walked in a store with a broken rod and walked out with a replacement no questions asked at least 2 times over the years before BPS. Quality is one issue as others have noted, but some of the those return policies and repair polices like at Simms seem to be the first to go when a corporate interest and bottom line only thinking gets involved.
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bigjohn358
Well-known member
Cabelas HAD quality made their brand gear. I never had any Cabelas brand fly fishing gear that I was unhappy with. Since Bass Pro took over Cabelas I haven't purchased a single piece of fly fishing equipment. Its just not the same quality. As far as Simms is concerned I feel the quality of my first pair of waders was so much better than my current pair of waders and I've been very unhappy with their wading boots and the way they warranty them to the point I no longer use their brand. I feel the company was getting too big for their britches and their quality has been slipping. Maybe I just expect too much out of $500+ waders. From what I've experienced when a company gets bought out the products rarely stay the same and usually ends up worse...rarely better!
DomR
Active member
150% agree. This often comes about after acquisitions, the buyer often needs to squeeze down costs and increase profits to offset the cash outlay of the purchase and show "growth", particularly if the purchasing company has shareholders. Got to get that value out of the acquisition!
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RLeep2
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2009
- Messages
- 1,465
Orvis is the only company I've ever had track me down on their own to make things right on faulty merchandise. I bought a pair of their grippy rubber sole wading shoes that were built with the old Clearwater cordura uppers. They were junk and the soles fell off them after 20 hours use. On the very same day that I had the shoes sitting out on the back deck foaming gorilla glue between the gaps in the duct tape, I got a letter from Orvis saying they would replace the shoes or issue a full credit at my discretion. I looked out at the shoes again and they were still foaming, so I took the credit..
Where it fits my needs, I'll always be an Orvis customer...
Where it fits my needs, I'll always be an Orvis customer...
Bamboozle
Well-known member
Sad...?
It's the contractual basis of the outsourcing and the desire to maximize profits at minimum cost that cause the problems with outsourcing, combined with having almost zero oversight because your junk is being made 7,000 miles away so you have to take someone else's word that the quality & material standards being kept at what was promised.
Their track record proves that ISN'T most often the case.
Bottom line, if you want to believe that Asian made (there I said it) stuff is on a par quality-wise with the best we have to offer that is made the USA, go right ahead and buy away...
...it's what encourages the retailers to keep the junk flowing.
jifigz
Well-known member
I just think it is an oversimplification to imply that outsourcing equals low quality. Japan, Taiwan, Korea, and yes, even China now makes many products just as good as we make them. There is American made quality and American made junk.. There is imported quality and there is imported junk. The consumer who buys the junk is to blame for it still coming in, that I agree with, but country of manufacture does not imply junk..I can't agree there.
I have lots of Spyderco's from all countries of manufacture that they use and I can't say the USA made knives are the best. A USA made model is my favorite, however, but the best quality? I don't know about that. I think it goes to a Taiwan blade. I have a friend that owns a shotgun accessory company so I have tortured so many models of autoloaders just for the sheer purpose of firing thousands of shells and I must say the American autoloaders are no better built than imports. Heck, even the Turkish guns that were rubbish 20 years ago are amazing quality these days. What makes my USA made Orvis rod leaps and bounds better than my Korean made TFO? It has some nicer components, but for the price difference it should, but I can't say it is higher quality.
bigjohn358
Well-known member
I have a large number of Chinese CNC fly reels that are very good quality. It wasn't like that 15 or so years ago but now they have really upped their game. I'm not saying everything is great from Asia but a lot of it isn't as bad as people make it out to be quality wise. Honestly I've purchased way more American made products that I'm disapointed in the quality of. I guess I expect way more out of the product plus the product usually costs way more.
