Unknown Massive Migratory Brown Trout?

There's no comparison between the mortality rate from fly fishing and that of worm fishing. Not even close. It can be rationalized until the cows come home, but there's no comparison.
Actually thats been proven wrong by Penn State bioligists. The mortality rate between flies and bait is almost equal. It was old data and preconceived notions that created the idea that bait caught fish had a much higher mortality rate.
 
Actually thats been proven wrong by Penn State bioligists. The mortality rate between flies and bait is almost equal. It was old data and preconceived notions that created the idea that bait caught fish had a much higher mortality rate.
The link is no longer available, but I posted info a while back about the mortality of trout in Missouri's stocked trout parks. They are stocked sections of streams with varying regulations. Some sections allowed fly-only, artificial lures, as well as a bait fishing area. These numbers are based on actual results from fishing day in and day out and based on how many trout must be restocked to maintain the section fished.

This is a perfect laboratory for studying mortality rates under realistic conditions. They studied mortality on a long-term basis through all months of every season. Many of the other studies I’ve read, were for a short-term and involved only few hundred anglers and fish. In these SR areas, many thousands of anglers catching many thousands of fish under actual conditions led them to their conclusions. One other note, since it is a pay-to-fish area, and trout are very expensive to raise, the Missouri Dept. of Conservation has a financial interest to protect. Here are their conclusions:

“Studies conducted by fisheries biologist across the country for the past 40 years, and most recently right here in Missouri, have documented that anglers can improve trout fishing just by changing what is on the end of their line. These studies have shown that trout caught and released using bait are five times more likely to die than trout caught and released using artificial lures or flies. In the trout management areas of Missouri, where minimum size limits require anglers to release sublegal size trout, the effects of bait fishing can have a detrimental effect on the fish population. Up to 80% of the sublegal size fish can die before they reach legal size of 15 or 18" in these areas.

Trout, like many other fish, use their sense of smell and taste when selecting food items. When a trout bites a food item, the scents released from the food can trigger the trout to hang onto its prey even more aggressively than if the smell and taste cues were not present. Unfortunately, this can lead to the hook penetrating very sensitive parts of the fish such as gills, esophagus, or even the heart located just under the skin in the lower rear part of the mouth.

Natural, prepared, and scented baits are often fished passively, meaning the bait is left to set on the stream or lake bottom, or suspended below a float, until the fish ingests it and begins to swim off. By this time the hook is usually deep in the fish's mouth. Because artificial lures and flies don't release scents, and because they are fished more actively by pulling them through the water, the time between biting and hooking is reduced, and the hook does not end up as deep in the trout's mouth. Therefore, if trout are to be released, their chances of survival are much greater if anglers use artificial lures or flies.

The use of artificial lures or flies when trout fishing will reduce catch and release mortality, resulting in more and larger fish for all anglers.”


Back in-the-day I fished bait for trout as well as for many other fish, and my past experience is 100% the same as the results stated above when comparing the mortality of bait fishing vs flies or lures.....no contest.
 
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Actually thats been proven wrong by Penn State bioligists. The mortality rate between flies and bait is almost equal. It was old data and preconceived notions that created the idea that bait caught fish had a much higher mortality rate.
Penn State "biologist" or not, I don't buy that a little bit. I've never had a trout "swallow" (as in gut hooked) my fly, ever. The likelihood of bait, worms in this particular conversation, being swallowed is very high. I've seen first hand the difference, and the outcome.
 
If you can't see the article I posted, it was by Mark Nale based on trout studied during a trout tournament on Bald Eagle.
 
Actually it was 2016 from the Centre County Times.
 
The carline studies on Bald Eagle Creek do hold some merit, however there are incentives to keep the fish alive. The fish are also transported to a check in station and held in recovery areas and observed for a period of time. A lot of variables in play that could influence survivability that are not representative of "normal" c&r techniques and practices. The study is also predominantly on stock trout if that matters to you.

As a whole, I think we can all agree there is a huge difference in passive bait fishing under a bobber, tightlining bait or actively retrieving minnows similar to working a spinner.
 
I don’t know if it’s published anywhere, but Bob Bachman told me about a study they conducted on the Savage tailwater. They noticed brook trout seemed to die more frequently when hooked with spinners/treble hooks compared to single hook flies.

They paired each angler with DNR staff. Half flies, half spinners. The anglers never handled the fish. DNR staff unhooked them and kept them in flow-through boxes in the stream. Staff “babysat” the trout for some period (I don’t recall the timespan) to observe mortality.

There was little to no difference between fly and treble hook with brown trout. I believe he said none of the browns died. With brook trout though, they did have some brook trout die that were hooked with treble hooks and none died that were hooked with flies.

They speculated that brook trout hit the lure more aggressively and were more likely to be hooked in a sensitive part of their mouth/head.

I’m not sure about this part, but I think thats why the different sections of the Savage tailwater have the angling regs they do.

Not exactly bait/fly, but I thought it was interesting.
 
A study tries to replicate actual conditions. What I posted above, about the Missouri's trout parks isn't a study, it's the actual results from month after month and year after year fishing mortality rates in the bait vs fly and artificial lures sections of the trout fishing park.
 
Sorry, didnt mean to get this off topic.

Where exactly are these giant migratory browns again? Wink wink
 
"The key to low hooking mortality is angler behavior. If bait anglers fish with a tight line and set the hook immediately upon detecting a strike, the fish will not be deeply hooked. Deep hooking has been shown to increase mortality."

Been saying this for years. Bait fishing doesn't cause mortality. But it makes it easier for bad angler behavior to do so. I was a bait fisherman for many years before switching to fly gear. Among better bait guys, deep hooking rates are extremely low, as low as fly fishing. Yes, I have had fish take flies rather deep but it's rare. It can be rare in bait fishing too, as is clearly spelled out, by fishing a tight line (drifting) and setting the hook immediately.

The difference is, with bait, the fish don't let go. If you let them, they will swallow it. So all the forked stick types, yeah, the rate is real high. And I've seen a lot of beginners too, upset after missing a few hooksets, say, "I'll let him take it". But there are plenty of good conservation minded sportsmen among the bait crowd as well.

As such, the bait fishing mortality is going to vary WILDLY from one place to another based solely on the type of people who fish there. Spring Creek with wild trout just attracts a different crowd than a trout park does, or a stocked pond does, you're gonna get different results. In a tournament, where I expect most of the anglers to be rather experienced, and hey, they have to turn them in alive or they don't get credit? So they're people who know how not to kill them, and have incentive not to kill them, using a technique where you pretty much have the choice on whether to kill them or not. Absolutely, I'd expect mortality to be low. It's common sense!!!

When wild trout are present, I'm not a "it must be ALO" guy. Base it on the need. If mortality is hurting populations, then yes. If not, then no. But, education is sorely needed for beginners, and anglers of all stripes should be calling out the a-holes who know better.
 
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Good post pcray. I see alot of sensible bait anglers on spring creek and other wild trout waters in addition to myself. In fact, I rarely ever fish any stocked waters anymore, unless its in fall and im looking for big fish that moved in from the river they feed.
 
I don't know if I missed it here, but simply moving away from the snelled Eagle Claw baitholder "J" hooks to Circle Hooks can greatly reduce mortality among trout and other species caught on bait.
 
Did this all start because of my joke about billy and his coffee can of night crawlers?
 
Getting back to the original intent of the post... I bet these fish of yours have moved a great distance. If you follow that stream to the mouth that may reveal a source of the leviathans. In my many decades of fishing all over the state, the one thing I have learned is that trout... almost all trout... move around a lot according to season, food source, spawning seasons, etc. The Bill Anderson presentation on this site concurs. Lil' J fish use the entire length of the river. One fish logging 120 miles in a season! I suspect that, when it comes to trout, this is the norm, not the exception.

PS. I know of streams in the lower Clarion River system that hosts fall runs of BIG browns that move up streams you could almost jump across.
 
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I agree with that.

I don't mind fishing for stocked trout but one of my pet peeves is the commission sees this as a problem. Residency. Stocking times/practices and breeding seem geared towards having a load of fish in a few locations and lots of empty stream. When I do fish stocked trout I tend to try to get away from access points and so many stocked streams are rather barren.

Plus what they consider wild streams is by section. But fish move. A section may have a lot of fish at one time and very few a couple months later. And fish populations in a "wild section" may depend on upstream or downstream sections at other times of year that aren't managed that way.
 
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