Unknown Massive Migratory Brown Trout?

silverfox said:
Similar situation near me. Two years ago I temped the river in the upper 80's during the heat of summer. I'd love to RFID tag some and find out exactly where they're going during the summer, but I have a pretty good idea. In this case, I'm about 80% sure they're going to groundwater upwellings IN the river. Probably a mix of moving great distances for some and others hugging thermal refuge within the river in nearby upwellings.

Just as a reminder, salmonids can and do move great distances (123 miles for one fish in the following study) over fairly short time periods. Even the stocked ones: https://www.fishandboat.com/Fish/Fisheries/TroutPlan/Documents/trout_movement.pdf

An interesting site from MT TU: https://montanatu.org/troutmigration/

Redbands; https://www.beaverinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/MontanaTroutMovement.pdf

I know I've posted it before, but Shannon White's research in the Loyalsock turned up some interesting results (max distance traveled by an individual was 13km/8 miles. https://doi.org/10.1111/fwb.13637

MD DNR: https://dnr.maryland.gov/fisheries/Documents/Telemetry_Study.pdf

Anecdotally, A friend caught a brown (with very distinguishing physical characteristics) a few years ago in a tributary to a larger river and caught the same fish the following weekend in another tributary some 20+ river miles away (down one tributary, up a large river, and up another tributary). Spawning related.

Neither here nor there, but all of this reinforces the issue with managing the Commonwealth's waters by "sections". Time of year, species, baseflow conditions and even angling pressure play a role in salmonid movement.
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silverfox said:
Simplest interpretation. That's what the book should say. ;)
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Agreed, in a conversation with Dave Nihart over my concern for the verbiage it was explained to me that, "It is now unlawful to keep a trout outside of designated stocked trout waters effectively from September to the season opener." I was not given an answer for why it was not written that way.
 
Congrats on finding Jordan Creek! It's a real gem!
 
Swattie87 said:
Becker - My wife convinced me to get a cat. I’m not kidding. We pick it up Saturday.
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Lol I love my cat. Picture is of Princess Monster truck though, not my cat. 🤣
 
I hate to be that guy but it's clear that these "Unknown Massive Migratory Brown Trout" are known which can be verified by the photos posted. Please change the title to the thread.

And.... that's sarcasm. Think there's quite a few threads on here discussing transient browns in Pa. Lots of info and thoughts.
 
krayfish2 said:
I hate to be that guy but it's clear that these "Unknown Massive Migratory Brown Trout" are known which can be verified by the photos posted. Please change the title to the thread.

And.... that's sarcasm. Think there's quite a few threads on here discussing transient browns in Pa. Lots of info and thoughts.
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I was referring to the specific population with the title but that is fair. Also I do not know how to change the title but will be happy to if you know how.
 
I'm a sarcastic fella. Just busting your chops. The migratory fish that you've found are found throughout the state. It's like finding a winning lottery ticket. Respect, cherish and protect what you have found.

I've suspected several locations of holding these fish but I'm not much of a winter angler anymore. My feeling was shown to be right ine of the suspected waters. My barber sent this photo of a brown taken in a bass creek. Maybe some day I'll get off my *** but I'm just as happy to know they are there without disturbing them.
 

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krayfish2 said:
I'm a sarcastic fella. Just busting your chops. The migratory fish that you've found are found throughout the state. It's like finding a winning lottery ticket. Respect, cherish and protect what you have found.

I've suspected several locations of holding these fish but I'm not much of a winter angler anymore. My feeling was shown to be right ine of the suspected waters. My barber sent this photo of a brown taken in a bass creek. Maybe some day I'll get off my *** but I'm just as happy to know they are there without disturbing th
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Kray, I'm way more impressed that you have a barber but you couldn't be more correct. PA has a disproportionate number of incredible fisheries. One of the biggest detriments to those fisheries is word of mouth.
 
I’m learning more and more that “SMB fisheries”, in certain circumstances and locations are actually wild Brown Trout fisheries.
 
Swattie87 said:
I’m learning more and more that “SMB fisheries”, in certain circumstances and locations are actually wild Brown Trout fisheries.
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I had an interesting conversation lately (last week) about this subject. We confirmed a few things that I've always suspected about these fish. Most importantly that there is probably a lot of variation in whether these fish are ALL actually moving that far, or at all. In one case, "we're" very confident that there are several that aren't moving at all.

What they ARE doing is hugging thermal refugia nearby. I found most of the locations and it's not very far from where they hang out in the colder months. One thing pointed out to me by someone who knows far more about this stuff than I do (likely more than most of us). Is that these fish aren't necessarily "thriving" as much as "surviving". That's reinforced by the physical condition (poor) of some of these fish pre-spawn.

Interestingly, this (to me) somewhat explains some other theories I've heard about fish condition on some popular central PA freestone streams. It's probably less about fingerling stocking, crayfish, or forage in general (as theorized by some), and probably more about water temperature and thermal refugia access or distance from thermal refugia and food rich microhabitats, though all of that could also impact forage base too.

In this unique niche, they have limited competition (a transition zone for bass & Esox), unlimited high-value food, but very unfavorable environmental conditions (temperature). There are not as many as you might think and that won't change regardless of any kind of angling regulations or monumental habitat improvement. They could trend down based on some catastrophic environmental events, but they'll never increase in numbers much beyond where they're at.

I'm sure in this particular population there is also some movement. Some movements are probably quite extreme in terms of distance. However, as has been proven in some studies on other species, the % of the population that moves is likely fairly small <20% and more likely in this particular case <10%.
 
tomgamber said:
Kray, I'm way more impressed that you have a barber but you couldn't be more correct. PA has a disproportionate number of incredible fisheries. One of the biggest detriments to those fisheries is word of mouth.
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Barber is believable. If I said I had soap and deodorant, that would be a stretch
 
silverfox said:
I had an interesting conversation lately (last week) about this subject. We confirmed a few things that I've always suspected about these fish. Most importantly that there is probably a lot of variation in whether these fish are ALL actually moving that far, or at all. In one case, "we're" very confident that there are several that aren't moving at all.

What they ARE doing is hugging thermal refugia nearby. I found most of the locations and it's not very far from where they hang out in the colder months. One thing pointed out to me by someone who knows far more about this stuff than I do (likely more than most of us). Is that these fish aren't necessarily "thriving" as much as "surviving". That's reinforced by the physical condition (poor) of some of these fish pre-spawn.

Interestingly, this (to me) somewhat explains some other theories I've heard about fish condition on some popular central PA freestone streams. It's probably less about fingerling stocking, crayfish, or forage in general (as theorized by some), and probably more about water temperature and thermal refugia access or distance from thermal refugia and food rich microhabitats, though all of that could also impact forage base too.

In this unique niche, they have limited competition (a transition zone for bass & Esox), unlimited high-value food, but very unfavorable environmental conditions (temperature). There are not as many as you might think and that won't change regardless of any kind of angling regulations or monumental habitat improvement. They could trend down based on some catastrophic environmental events, but they'll never increase in numbers much beyond where they're at.

I'm sure in this particular population there is also some movement. Some movements are probably quite extreme in terms of distance. However, as has been proven in some studies on other species, the % of the population that moves is likely fairly small <20% and more likely in this particular case <10%.
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What do you really know?
 
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