Unique Penns Creek Brown Trout Markings

ryansheehan wrote:
Definitely stocked brown, no chance its a tiger. Ive caught alot of pa stocked brown trout with those exact markings.

really ? with the vermiculation on the dorsal, thats interesting.

rooting around on googling images, i found this from our own humble site :

http://www.paflyfish.com/forums/Open-Forums/Paflyfish-General-Forum/Western-MD-trip--weird-looking-brown-trout/2,38921,566002.html#forumpost566002





the fish are simiarly marked, so I stand corrected.

cheers

GB

 
geebee wrote:
ryansheehan wrote:
Definitely stocked brown, no chance its a tiger. Ive caught alot of pa stocked brown trout with those exact markings.

really ? with the vermiculation on the dorsal, thats interesting.

rooting around on googling images, i found this from our own humble site :

http://www.paflyfish.com/forums/Open-Forums/Paflyfish-General-Forum/Western-MD-trip--weird-looking-brown-trout/2,38921,566002.html#forumpost566002





the fish are simiarly marked, so I stand corrected.

cheers

GB

I wouldn't call them vermiculations. They're just connected spots and not interweaved enough like they would be on a brookie.

I call these stocker browns digital camo trouts, because the non-spot patterns remind me of an abstract digital camo pattern.
 
100% stocked holdover brown. Markings are not right for a tiger. Tiger are interlocked vermiculations, the stocked browns get splotchy spots that are not connected. Looks similar but isn't.

Awesome fish regardless, and it's been in the water a while or a very, very nice hatchery.
 
salmonoid wrote:
geebee wrote:
ryansheehan wrote:
Definitely stocked brown, no chance its a tiger. Ive caught alot of pa stocked brown trout with those exact markings.

really ? with the vermiculation on the dorsal, thats interesting.

rooting around on googling images, i found this from our own humble site :

http://www.paflyfish.com/forums/Open-Forums/Paflyfish-General-Forum/Western-MD-trip--weird-looking-brown-trout/2,38921,566002.html#forumpost566002





the fish are simiarly marked, so I stand corrected.

cheers

GB

I wouldn't call them vermiculations. They're just connected spots and not interweaved enough like they would be on a brookie.

I call these stocker browns digital camo trouts, because the non-spot patterns remind me of an abstract digital camo pattern.

Too funny my buddies and I call them digi-browns.
 
Tiger trout vermiculations are light on dark background (like a brook trout).

At least for any I've seen.
 
I lost count of all the times people say a stocked PA brown is a TIGER LOL!

100% brown + 0% brookie = 0.000% tiger ;-)
 
Pcray... You say you don't find many trout in Penns over the 16-18" bracket and in my limited experience I somewhat agree. You also say these fish are 3 years old... Where do you suppose they go as they age. All the literature I read on Browns states that they are a long lived fish and can reach 10+ years... You'd think there would be more fish in the 20+ inch category given the number of 16 to 17"ers present. I have my theories, but would like to hear more from those who have more knowledge of Penns Browns than me.


Btw, to the OP... That really is an awesome fish! Beautiful no matter the origin. WTG!!!
 
stocked Loch Leven brown or German.

Not a tiger.

more importantly. nice fish
 

It's not a tiger trout and probaly came out of Dinges land.
 

He stocks fish on his land on pine
 
Sinking creek is also stocked and lower penns... Big Poe Creek however says no browns below the dam(I'm sure some get in there tho)
 

These put in by the private land owner are mostly pretty big trout.
 
Pcray... You say you don't find many trout in Penns over the 16-18" bracket and in my limited experience I somewhat agree. You also say these fish are 3 years old... Where do you suppose they go as they age. All the literature I read on Browns states that they are a long lived fish and can reach 10+ years... You'd think there would be more fish in the 20+ inch category given the number of 16 to 17"ers present. I have my theories, but would like to hear more from those who have more knowledge of Penns Browns than me.

Always wondered the same.

First, due to natural mortality, it's normal for there to be fewer and fewer in each year class. So even if there were not anything "special" going on about Penns, the number of 4 year olds would be a fraction of the number of 3 year olds, which are a fraction of the number of 2 year olds, which are a fraction of the number of 1 year olds. So, the older they get, the rarer they are.

And despite my seeming inability to catch them, there ARE 20+ inchers in Penns.

But it does seem like there should be a few more than there are.

Part of it may be that I don't catch many 20+ because I'm not TRYING to catch 20+ inchers. I catch 16-18 inchers while fishing normally. Nymphs, dry flies, etc. If I do use streamers they tend to run small. I'm not out there tossing big articulated streamers to represent small suckers and fallfish and stuff like that that the big browns would mostly eat. I'm not fishing late at night which is when the big browns tend to eat. So there's some self selection going on. I catch what bigger fish can commonly be caught while fishing for higher numbers of little fish.

But also, while a brown trout in captivity CAN reach 10 years, I think in wild environments anything over 5 is extremely rare, especially in places where they grow big. Life in nature is difficult. As they get bigger they need more food to sustain themselves. They also need more oxygen, larger sources of cover, etc. Natural events that prevent feeding for a period of time, or temporarily increase temperature, etc., do happen in nature, and they impact larger fish more severely than they do smaller fish.

And lastly, Penns has a lot of food. But it's mostly bugs. Not that there isn't baitfish. But in terms of bug life it's extremely rich which leads to fast growth rates when compared to more pedestrian streams. In terms of baitfish life it's more normal. Which means that fish will hold onto the bug diet longer before becoming piscavores, and big fish eating bugs don't grow real fast. When they do make the switch, they still don't grow real fast because Penns isn't anything special for them anymore.

i.e. by the time they reach 3 years and 16-18 inches, every additional year might only add an inch or so of length. Which makes it hard to surpass that magic 20" mark, and if they do, they don't do it by all that much.

Those are just my thoughts. But yeah, I'm shooting from the hip.
 
It's funny the tiger thing came up. A good friend/fishing buddy of mine sent me a picture last month of a fish he thought was a tiger. I quickly shot him down (it looked just like the OP, but smaller).

As a wildlife biologist, he sent the picture to three of his fisheries biologist friends. They all remarked that they would label it a tiger if they found it during a stream survey. One of the fisheries biologist is a PA Fish Commission biologist.

While personally, I still believe it is a 100% brown, that's not how it would get labeled by the state.
 
pcray1231 wrote:
Pcray... You say you don't find many trout in Penns over the 16-18" bracket and in my limited experience I somewhat agree. You also say these fish are 3 years old... Where do you suppose they go as they age. All the literature I read on Browns states that they are a long lived fish and can reach 10+ years... You'd think there would be more fish in the 20+ inch category given the number of 16 to 17"ers present. I have my theories, but would like to hear more from those who have more knowledge of Penns Browns than me.

Always wondered the same.

First, due to natural mortality, it's normal for there to be fewer and fewer in each year class. So even if there were not anything "special" going on about Penns, the number of 4 year olds would be a fraction of the number of 3 year olds, which are a fraction of the number of 2 year olds, which are a fraction of the number of 1 year olds. So, the older they get, the rarer they are.

And despite my seeming inability to catch them, there ARE 20+ inchers in Penns.

But it does seem like there should be a few more than there are.

Part of it may be that I don't catch many 20+ because I'm not TRYING to catch 20+ inchers. I catch 16-18 inchers while fishing normally. Nymphs, dry flies, etc. If I do use streamers they tend to run small. I'm not out there tossing big articulated streamers to represent small suckers and fallfish and stuff like that that the big browns would mostly eat. I'm not fishing late at night which is when the big browns tend to eat. So there's some self selection going on. I catch what bigger fish can commonly be caught while fishing for higher numbers of little fish.

But also, while a brown trout in captivity CAN reach 10 years, I think in wild environments anything over 5 is extremely rare, especially in places where they grow big. Life in nature is difficult. As they get bigger they need more food to sustain themselves. They also need more oxygen, larger sources of cover, etc. Natural events that prevent feeding for a period of time, or temporarily increase temperature, etc., do happen in nature, and they impact larger fish more severely than they do smaller fish.

And lastly, Penns has a lot of food. But it's mostly bugs. Not that there isn't baitfish. But in terms of bug life it's extremely rich which leads to fast growth rates when compared to more pedestrian streams. In terms of baitfish life it's more normal. Which means that fish will hold onto the bug diet longer before becoming piscavores, and big fish eating bugs don't grow real fast. When they do make the switch, they still don't grow real fast because Penns isn't anything special for them anymore.

i.e. by the time they reach 3 years and 16-18 inches, every additional year might only add an inch or so of length. Which makes it hard to surpass that magic 20" mark, and if they do, they don't do it by all that much.

Those are just my thoughts. But yeah, I'm shooting from the hip.

We shocked a fish up in the summer of 2011 that we called duck bill. He was around 24" at that time, it would be another one of those is it wild or not fish but he was in the water awhile before we had shocked him. He was caught throughout the years and never really grew much maybe a inch or two. Last year during the drakes was the last time that I saw him and he through the hook on me. We are guessing that he was around 8 years old, im not saying that he isnt still alive but its been over a year since i have laid eyes on him. Could have moved, could have died or he could still be in that hole just not as friendly as he use to be.
 
from- https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/88-6tr_362998_7.pdf

Effects of environmental factors on growth
Because growth is strongly influenced by environmental factors such as food type and
availability, water temperature, and fish density, differences or changes in growth rates in wild
populations cannot readily be ascribed to genetic differences or changes. Dramatic examples of
the growth plasticity of brown trout produced in Michigan hatcheries is evident from
comparisons of their growth when they are stocked in different waters. Domestic brown trout
stocked in Lake Huron near Alpena, Michigan, achieve an average size of 18.8 inches and 3.5
pounds during the summer at age 2 (Weber, personal communication, 1988, Michigan
Department of Natural Resources, Alpena). Domestic brown trout stocked in sinkhole lakes in
the Pigeon River State Forest were 12 inches long and weighed 0.6 pound in October at age 2
(Alexander 1987). Au Sable River brown trout which grew at the same rate as domestic brown
trout in the Pigeon River lakes average 9.3 inches long in the Mainstream Au Sable River in
October at age 2 (Alexander et al. 1979).


In penns they might grow that fast most steams a high teen/20" fish is a lot older then 3 years.
 
I emailed pictures of, and spoke to a PFBC biologist about the fish in the OP. His opinion is that it is a fish that has been stocked from a private hatchery, likely with "earthen ponds". He based his opinion of it being from a private hatchery rather than from a PFBC hatchery on the condition of his fins.
 
I see alot of trout from the 16-18 range from anglers in our area. 20+ of course you don't see them everyday they are not dumb gotta know the stream and when to go to get after them. Big trout are privately stocked in pine above where it combines with elk by a private land owner they make there way down when it rains hard and comes up higher he has money he doesn't care just re stocks it.
 
According to Jason Detar of the PFBC, in an article in the Lancaster newspaper, a 14 inch brown trout in Penns Creek is about 4 years old.

 
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