Tying partridge soft hackles

[dc410]

I just got some new partridge skins and I’m in the process of tying some flies for the latest swap organized by Kimba here on PAFF. I’m looking for some input on a technique that I’ve been experimenting with on prepping a partridge feather to be tied in as a soft hackle.

I tie my soft hackle feathers in by the tip and always have. I pick the appropriately sized feather, strip the fuzzy stuff from both sides of the bottom of the feather and stroke back the fibers from the tip and clip off the tip leaving that very small triangle as a tie in point. Recently I’ve been stripping off all of the fibers on the left side of the feather leaving only about 12-15 fibers on the right side of the feather for the 1 1/2 - 2 wraps of hackle. I absolutely love the way these fibers wrap around the hook due to their configuration off of the stem and the number of fibers in regards to sparseness are about perfect! The only thing that concerns me at all in using this technique is if the durability of the hackle stem is significantly effected by stripping the fibers off of the one side. I’d like to hear your opinions if you’ve tried this technique on hackling soft hackle wets. Thanks!

 

[JimNovo]

dc410,
While not an expert at hackling I have not tried using, in essence, half of the feather. The videos I’ve watched from Flagler or Barry Ord Clarke don’t strip half away. However, in looking at that type of feather I don’t think it would be weakened for bigger flies/feathers.

If it looks great…go for it! Flies are temporary anyway!!!

 

[bdhoover77]

If I was able to find a partridge skin, I would use your method to keep the hackle sparse.

 

[dc410]

I may be nitpicking, but here is the difference. The first one just seems to be hackled to heavily in my opinion.

 

[bdhoover77]

What is the disadvantage (if there is one) of over-hackling a wet fly? Do you think it has an impact of effectiveness?

 

[redietz]

I may be nitpicking, but here is the difference. The first one just seems to be hackled to heavily in my opinion.

By the time you take it in and out of your fly box a few times, it won't have any hackle at all.

The aesthetic of "sparser is better" is a recent one and has nothing whatsoever to do with the fly's effectiveness. If you look at North Country flies tied in the 19th century (when those Yorkshire anglers were depending on the food) you'll find that th were much more heavily hackled, and that the hackle was a bit longer than you see today.

 

[redietz]

What is the disadvantage (if there is one) of over-hackling a wet fly? Do you think it has an impact of effectiveness?

You'll get criticized on social media by people unfamiliar with the traditional way the flies were tied. Other than that, there is no downside. The heavier the hackle (I guess there's some limit) the longer the fly will last.

 

[bdhoover77]

You'll get criticized on social media by people unfamiliar with the traditional way the flies were tied. Other than that, there is no downside. The heavier the hackle (I guess there's some limit) the longer the fly will last.

What about the size of the hackle? I’m not talking about ridiculously oversized hackle, but do you think the size of the hackle for the hook used generally makes a difference?

 

[redietz]

What about the size of the hackle? I’m not talking about ridiculously oversized hackle, but do you think the size of the hackle for the hook used generally makes a difference?

If you look at my avatar here, it's from T.E. Pritt's book North Country Flies, published in 1885. He was an excellent artist, and drew the hackle fibers the length he expected. These are much longer than is popular today. And they caught fish.

Some actual flies from the period when wet flies were king:

 

[dc410]

If you look at my avatar here, it's from T.E. Pritt's book North Country Flies, published in 1885. He was an excellent artist, and drew the hackle fibers the length he expected. These are much longer than is popular today. And they caught fish.

Some actual flies from the period when wet flies were king:

View attachment 1641233061

Thank you so much for your input. I guess I need to not be so worried about the amount of hackle. That’s cool! I have plenty of bigger feathers too, to add some longer length to my flies than I have traditionally tied them. I really appreciate your input, redietz! Thank you.

 

[mt_flyfisher]

John -

All of the flies that I’ve seen of yours in the past look good to me. With that being said, between your two flies here, your second fly here looks more attractive to me, but whether it is more durable might or might not be the case.

As you know, partridge hackle stems are fragile, and you have to be careful not to apply too much pressure so they don’t break them when wrap them. Does stripping off the barbules on one side make them even more fragile? I don’t know for sure, but I’d guess that would be the case, and more so on the smaller hackles.

Once you finish wrapping the partridge hackle, tie it in and cut it off, I generally pull the barbules toward the rear of the fly and wrap a couple or more turns of thread slightly toward the rear of the fly. Those final thread wraps position the hackle barbules rearward and are made over at least some of the the hackle stem, which reinforces and at least partially strengthens it.

I think you also get a neater thread wrap using your method (obviously due to the somewhat narrower stem, and the fewer number of barbules trapped under the thread when you tie the hackle off) which results in a smaller, neater looking head, which is apparent in your second fly compared to the first.

Both are nice looking flies in either case.

 

[GHM]

Thank you so much for your input. I guess I need to not be so worried about the amount of hackle. That’s cool! I have plenty of bigger feathers too, to add some longer length to my flies than I have traditionally tied them. I really appreciate your input, redietz! Thank you.

DC,
Im no expert, but as I am perfecting my partridge and squirrel for the swap, i am doing it differently. Stripping of fibers definitely weakens the fly. I am of course taking off the fluffy bits but then take off half of the fibers from the back of one side. When I tie in at the tip, it makes a nice short section(first wrap) followed by the longer section(second). I feel it gives me a full, but not cramped collar. Just my opinion,
Gavin

 

[KeviR]

I have found that removing half the fibers results in a better proportioned fly, like you posted. But stripping them does seem to weaken the stem. What I do is stroke the fibers back from the tip a bit, then holding the hackle by the tip, cut along one side with scissors. If you cut "against the grain" like this, (from the tip toward the base) the scissors naturally nestle in tight against the shaft and clean off that side with minimal stubble. A little stubble is not visible anyway. It's not as quick as stripping the fibers, but it's fairly quick once you get the hang of it.

 

[fcarp]

I tend to strip one side of the feather for smaller flies and then sometimes do it for larger flies, sometimes not. Mostly for me, the single sided feather was just easier to work with and makes for a thinner head/tie off. As for durability, I felt that it didn’t make a difference and some errant grabs with hemo stats will beat up the fly anyway.

I’ve tried a tip which was to put a small (like real small) amount of head cement down before wrapping the feather (this technique is good for the single sided feather, more so glue the stem to the hook and less chance of hackle grabbing the glue and the Tyler preening glue back into the barbs)… tried it but I never felt it was necessary.

Another trick would be to leave your thread at the feather tie in point then weave it through the fibers to get to the head and tie off.

All of this to say here are some tricks, but regardless of stripped or not stripped feather, never felt that the need to reinforce that area, usually lose the fly by the time it’s an issue. Both flies look nice to me!

 

[DomR]

I may be nitpicking, but here is the difference. The first one just seems to be hackled to heavily in my opinion.

View attachment 1641233059View attachment 1641233060

Interesting, I've opted for the 1st tie when making soft hackles. I'm in the more moving fibers underwater is better school. Movement simulates life and draws strikes. Looking at both photos though, I'd have to say I'd fish either every day of the week and twice on Sundays! Nice ties!

 

[albatross]

Good stuff. I've been fishing soft hackles such as this increasingly dressed as a dry in the film representing a cripple/emerger. Deadly technique. Often trail this behind a more traditional dry of the same species as the soft hackle is hard to see.

 

[bdhoover77]

I have not been able to actually get out to fish recently, but I have been spending my spare time tying up a few varieties of soft hackles. I have a few partridge and orange, some peacock body soft hackles, some hares ear soft hackles, and a few all fur wet flies with pine squirrel collars. Soft hackles have quickly become my favorite flies to tie because of the way they look. To me, they look like what a fly should look like.

I am quickly running out of partridge, so I’ve been turning to hen and starling feathers.

 

[DomR]

I am quickly running out of partridge, so I’ve been turning to hen and starling feathers.

Years ago well before the internet the fly shops out in NNJ used to have issues sourcing good partridge, they either couldn't get it or it was webby and lousy. We used to use hen, it worked just fine.

Starling is cool, I tie them up with herl and various other body colors.

 

[mt_flyfisher]

With all of the talk about Hungarian Partridge here lately, here are a couple that I got on EBay a few months back. I’ve bought several other similar ones there the past couple years from guys in Idaho and Utah.

If you can wait until these birds are harvested sometime this fall or over the winter, and don’t mind paying the price, I think they are generally better quality than the ones you often find in fly shops.

 

[dc410]

I have found that removing half the fibers results in a better proportioned fly, like you posted. But stripping them does seem to weaken the stem. What I do is stroke the fibers back from the tip a bit, then holding the hackle by the tip, cut along one side with scissors. If you cut "against the grain" like this, (from the tip toward the base) the scissors naturally nestle in tight against the shaft and clean off that side with minimal stubble. A little stubble is not visible anyway. It's not as quick as stripping the fibers, but it's fairly quick once you get the hang of it.

Thanks for sharing that technique. I’m going to give that a try.