Trout and high temps?

[sarce]

That is one of the best looking stocked rainbows I've ever seen!

 

[Mike]

Nice fish. While I would certainly not expect to find such fish regularly in the Conestoga, given the amount of limestone geology in the basin, it would be logical that there would be some in-river springs that could hold a trout or two through the long warm periods. I don’t know specifically where that fish was captured, and it doesn’t matter regarding the point that follows, but as a general example of where I might expect to find such fish more than in some other locations, there is a quarry stretch near Churchtown that is or used to be stocked by a club. Cold water in streams is often associated with near-by quarries.

Similarly, I have found single large RT on occasions while electrofishing warmwater streams in summer. As McSneek will probably attest in the future, such occasions were always memorable, as these fish were way “out of place” and I would have expected it more from Brown Trout, but such was NEVER the case. The large RT’s have been nosed up into spring seeps along the stream or river’s edge. Examples: Schuylkill R limestone outcrop just above Reading at Cross Keys, Delaware R at Raubsville, Northampton Co, East or West Branch of Brandywine Ck SW of West Chester. Likewise, getting back to the Conestoga, at least one seep holds Slimy Sculpins, a coldwater species, near Churchtown and there are probably a number of others along that river. Likewise, there are some nice size limestone springs contributing flow to the Conestoga, such as the stream locally known as Spring Ike that enters the Conestoga near Martindale. Such waters could attract an occasional “stray” trout.

 

[McSneek]

This fish was caught a few miles downstream of the Talmage quarry. No way there would be any cold water influence that far away. It really was a beautiful fish. Over 20”. Caught two nice smallmouth in the same spot.

 

[Dave_W]

Interesting! That's a good looking fish McSneek.

 

[JeffP]

How close from Lititz run? Could the quarry let in some cold water?

 

[McSneek]

How close from Lititz run? Could the quarry let in some cold water?

Not very close to Lititz Run but that could be where it came from. I was thinking maybe it came from Hammer or Middle and made its way down the river. Guess there are some other stocked streams that flow into the ‘stoga below Lancaster.

 

[Mike]

McSneek, Just to round out your info….Stocked streams below Lancaster are Ltl Conestoga with its lower stocking limit being Harrisburg Pk and WBr Ltl Conestoga west of Millersville. Both are stocked well upstream of the Conestoga R. Any trout from those two would have to swim up the Conestoga and easily ascend (for a trout) the low fishway at the Lancaster Waterworks Dam near Rts 30 and 23. Your RT certainly found a “cool spot” or else had recently entered the Conestoga from a cold stream because its condition (plumpness) was excellent, unlike a fish that had been suffering from temperature stress since sometime in late May or June.

 

[Brown71]

Trout are not near the pansies some of the fishing crowd makes them out to be. For warm water and handling both.

 

[pcray1231]

When on the rare occasion I heard of a sizable number of stocked trout appearing at the mouth of a cool trib in early to mid-summer in general regulation stream section, I cut the section allocation accordingly. Such occurrences are a waste of stocked trout that could be better utilized elsewhere.

I disagree with this viewpoint. If a stream is cold enough to support fish through summer, pretty good chance it shouldn't be stocked at all. The main purpose of stocking trout is to create seasonal trout fisheries in streams that get too warm in summer, and thus would not otherwise be quality recreational fisheries in April and May.

 

[silverfox]

I disagree with this viewpoint. If a stream is cold enough to support fish through summer, pretty good chance it shouldn't be stocked at all. The main purpose of stocking trout is to create seasonal trout fisheries in streams that get too warm in summer, and thus would not otherwise be quality recreational fisheries in April and May.

I agree. Unfortunately, I think biomass estimates, carrying capacity, proximity to population centers, public access, and a number of other factors impact the decision-making process.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

I think what Mike was inferring to was underutilization of that streams stocked trout allocation. Ie if anglers aren't keeping the fish and it is resulting in large mortality events from thermal stress then the "resource" isn't being utilized and the stocking allocation could be dropped.

 

[dc410]

Pretty cool, McSneek. I caught one in the summer of ‘20 on the ‘Stoga as well while fishing for Smallies. Pulled it out of a crevice between two veins of limestone ledgerock. When I got it close enough I thought I had a Steelhead!

 

[goose54cdd]

I caught my biggest stocked trout of the year in the Conestoga River of all places last week. I thought I had a huge smallmouth on then when it took off downstream I thought maybe channel cat or carp. I was shocked when I got it close enough to see the telltale pink stripe. It ate a #4 woolly bugger that I think is a nice crayfish imitation. It fought like a steelhead. The ‘stoga is bath water warm. Go figure.
View attachment 1641226282

Where is the fly? I think you should post it.

 

[Mike]

Pcray, you’re second sentence in #29 above makes the types of streams that I am speaking about sound a lot better than they were. Your third sentence is the type of stream that I had in my head as I wrote the comment. Fortunately, with SE Pa angling pressure and stocking rates designed to match angler use counts and be consistent with comments on angler usage from WCO’s such problems were apparently infrequent in SE Pa.

 

[GeneBeam]

Where is the fly? I think you should post it.

Why?

 

[pcray1231]

I think what Mike was inferring to was underutilization of that streams stocked trout allocation. Ie if anglers aren't keeping the fish and it is resulting in large mortality events from thermal stress then the "resource" isn't being utilized and the stocking allocation could be dropped

Yes, but its complete B.S. It's the same kind of thinking that puts piles of fish near access points in crowded areas, making them more crowded and leaving other areas of the stream devoid of fish and fishermen. Because a higher % get caught and kept that way.

The % of fish that get caught or kept should not matter. The % that die of thermal stress should not matter. The goal should be miles of water to fish. Period. If it already has wild fish, fantastic, no need to help it, class C is sufficient to be a quality fishery on its own, and number of "legal sized" doesn't matter either since most people release their catch anyway. If it doesn't have fish, ok, stock it, and smaller numbers per stocking point but more stocking points over greater area is the preference. Float stocking is great if you can. Most anglers see catching 3 or 4 in relative solitude over a full day as a better experience than combat fishing to yank their 5 out in an hr and going home. This will result in a smaller % of fish getting caught, a smaller % getting kept, more natural mortality from thermal stress and other factors, etc. But better angling experiences.

Basing it on angler use is poor too, to a point anyway. Instead of putting fish where anglers are, they need to understand anglers go where fish are. A bunch of anglers over a pile of fish is a BAD thing. It means the fish aren't spread out enough. Therefore the anglers aren't spread out enough.

There's a neverending cycle going on. Hey, a bunch of people fish this stretch, not as many down there. Lets put more fish where the people are and less where they ain't. And then even more fish that stretch, and less fish the other stretch Repeat. You lose stocking points. You lose miles of good water to make small pockets of great but crowded water. You encourage the mob scene. And thats not how it should be. Thats not how I want to teach my kid to fish.

 

[tomgamber]

Now who's letting their emotions run the show. 😉

 

[Mike]

If anglers want that kind of experience, they can get together with some like minded individuals, build a float box or float barrel or two and have at it at an appropriate water for float stocking, maybe even your favorite stream. Maurice probably already has a design you may copy. Likewise, the Southern Lancaster WCO, Jeff Schmidt. Either that, or go fish a stream that is float stocked. Or they can do what I have done since my teens…fish between stocking points and pick off the stragglers, which to me is a more realistic fishing experience.

As for the number of stocking points per mile of stream, there was and probably still is guidance on the max number per mile. When a truck load of fish is being hauled from Bellefonte to Berks Co or Lehigh Co as examples, it’s a long day. They don’t have time to stock every nook and cranny. Furthermore, too much time on the truck precipitated by additional stops can result in sick or dead fish, especially with heavy loads set up for efficient transport, loads with higher numbers of brood or trophy fish, and days with warmer air temps.

 

[Dave_W]

I see Pat's points, but stocked trout really should be "utilized" by anglers and if there are large numbers dying off due to thermal stress, than some re-thinking of stocking policy is likely warranted. To be sure, there will always be some summer die off and this isn't a problem but, in my experience on my local streams, there is quite a bit of die off. In my view, the local streams in my neck of the woods should see a larger allocation of their fish in the pre-season and fewer fish stocked during in-season. There just aren't that many people fishing later in the spring to catch all the fish stocked. (It should be noted that the streams I'm talking about have little or no cold water refuge, either in the form of springs, or tributaries).

 

[silverfox]

I think what Mike was inferring to was underutilization of that streams stocked trout allocation. Ie if anglers aren't keeping the fish and it is resulting in large mortality events from thermal stress then the "resource" isn't being utilized and the stocking allocation could be dropped.

We've been told the vast majority of anglers practice C&R as a reason C&R regs are unnecessary. Wouldn't C&R practices result in fish ultimately dying from thermal stress too? So it's not that the stocked trout aren't "utilized", its that they aren't being harvested. i.e., leftover fish isn't necessarily a sign that nobody was fishing for them, it's more likely that everybody is just releasing them.

That's a messaging problem IMO. Everyone practicing C&R with stocked trout thinks they're doing some great service to the fishery by releasing the stocked trout. So you end up with a bunch of fish dying in August rather than going on the grill (or in the freezer indefinitely), and you get more holdover stocked trout in wild trout streams which irritates the wild trout anglers, or directly negatively impacts the wild trout populations. A side effect of years of incessant C&R preaching. People don't understand which fish are beneficial to C&R and which ones they're supposed to take home. All trout in all places are good trout?