To everyone with an American job

cce114 wrote:
Jay,

I was just disagreeing with the comment made about college grads not able to find jobs, thats all. I wasn't trying to make an argument one way or another about outsourcing.

I just don't see the sky falling concerning our economy. Our economy has been expanding at a very healthy rate for over 5 years now, unemployment is near an all time low, and our standard of living is as high as it's ever been.
Click to expand...

I agree with some of what you are saying, and I don't see the sky falling either, but our standard of living is not as high as it's ever been, and it will continue to drop.

Latest statistics do show that the average household income was actually up last year by a whopping 1.2 percent. Something like that). i don't remember the exact number, but it was more than 1 and less than 2 percent, which was lower than the rate of inflation. that may have been adjusted for inflation, I don't know. In either case, that's the good news!!!. During that same time, the average individual income has actually dropped. The reason average household income is up (ever so slightly) is because more households are relying on dual incomes. Also, more and more are not offered medical, and more and more can't afford it on their own. higher standard of living??? The only group that can claim that is the CEOs, CFOs, etc. The top tear. They have been experiencing double digit increases while the average hump gets 2 or 3 percent, if any. Should we also talk about pension funds, too. Don't get me started. I'm not saying this is wrong, just that you are wrong. ;-)

I agree that there are lots of jobs out there, especially for recent college grads if they have the right degrees. But things don't look as good for the guys who have 20+ years in. Engineers with lots of experience are being laid off and replaced with college grads and foreign workers. The experienced engineers are being forced to take less, or do something else. Several of my friends were laid off in engineering up through middle management. they were able to find other work, but at about half the salary. I guess I will take my 2 percent increase (worst ever), my decrease in medical (which my 2 percent increase doesn't cover), and my recent cut in pension plan and smile about it. Afterall, I am in better shape than a lot of my friends. :-x

One of the things these CFOs know is that new grads don't give a flying flop about pension funds and benefits. It's show me the money! That is why average starting salaries are up for engineers. but for the people who have been out there for awhile, things are not as rosy.
 
In addition to guiding I am also a teacher. You talk about getting crapped on. In Florida they need teacher’s soo bad that they hire people who do not even have a degree in education. They start the pay scale fairly decent, better than PA, but You barely see an increase in pay and after 30 years you only make 55,000. In SW Florida you can not live on that. Now, last year when I began teaching I made in the mid 30's. This year’s new teacher’s start around 38 and the year after that will start in the low 40's. I never see that increase in pay, my salary stays the same. So a first year teacher with no degree in education will make more than me if they begin teaching this year or next and I hold a B.S in Education. Complete BS. Teach for 30 years for 55,000 to retire on? I don’t think so scooter.
 
if you really want something to worry about, start thinking about Medicare and Social Security.
 
This is in response to Farmer Dave's Post.

Before my aggressive investment program drove me out of the labor market, I used to work with some of those stats. you cite in your post. But now, since I have no reason to refer to those boring numbers, I do not!

But, I seem to remember seeing some references about studies or reports that stated that in terms of real income, as opposed to nominal income, incomes actually decreased - in real terms. Not sure to what time frame, but I am guessing it was the period between the 80's - 90's. And, I would also guess that currently real incomes for most of the workforce are decreasing.
 
Oh sure, you just had to rub it in. :-D
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/04/business/worldbusiness/04outsource.html?ref=us
 
But, I seem to remember seeing some references about studies or reports that stated that in terms of real income, as opposed to nominal income, incomes actually decreased - in real terms. Not sure to what time frame, but I am guessing it was the period between the 80's - 90's. And, I would also guess that currently real incomes for most of the workforce are decreasing.
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Median (not mean) real income (adjusted for inflation) has increased over 30% since 1967. This chart shows it by year and identifies recession years. The 80s & 90s looked pretty good. You'll also see a spike in the late 90s during the tech boom, that was the high point in terms of real median income.

Census Chart

I'll let this go then. Sorry about talking about this on a fishing forum.
 
OK, That"s Census data.

I think the studies/reports to which I was referring used BEA data, specifically per capita income. I never read the stuff,. Just saw that someone was citing it. But, I do remember commentators, talk show hosts, and others making the claim that real income had either held steady or declined.
 
Me thinks Padraic has a Dell computer.
 
The info seems to be in line with what i was saying form 2006 versus 2005, so it probably came from the same data.

As far as what the government feeds us, I don't put a whole lot of stock in it. although there numbers for actual income are probably accurate, their methods for calculating cost of living and inflation are somewhere between reality and fantasy.

I personally believe that with the right degrees, things look good in the short term for college grads. But looking further out into the future? Not so good. I don't think I would want to be starting over (unless I can take my current knowledge with me). I never thought I would ever wish I was older, but I sorta do now. At 47, it's a race to retirement, and the race format is kinda like those old figure 8 tracks. Do any of you remember those? The goal is to simply survive to finish where I am now. I still have a long ways to go, and traffic is getting heavier.
 
Farmer Dave, I wish you well, the very best. I know that it is tough out there.

My take on it it that the ruling elite has plan and implement the outcomes that we are now experiencing.

On data, most of the data comes from the feds. Some data are better than other data. Most people have no idea which govt dept. or agency collects or is the source of the data. For example, people, thinking that it is the source, will use data from something like the US Statistical Abstract. Data from it is only a collection of data from various sources. These data are usually out of date. If they want to spin things, they at least should use the latest data.
 
Thanks for the kind words, but I'm confident that I will be fine no matter what happens. And I don't expect anything to happen in the next year or two. Unless of course I get that promotion I have been pushing for. LOL!!!

I think I have positioned myself fairly well. I'm just getting tired of the games. i don't want to say any more than that, because I do like my job for the most part.

Had back to back meetings early this morning, one with Shanghai, the other with Singapore. :roll:
 
"been doped on religion and sex and TV
and you think you're so clever and classless and free
but you're still fu-king peasants as far as I can see
a Working Class Hero is something to be"
 
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