Tioga River Reclamation

[lycoflyfisher]

Swattie, just for your knowledge of the stocking locations. The state starts stocking in the small DCNR campground at the County Bridge. Its a pretty good hike to access the stream much below that park, unless you walk the creek.

 

[Swattie87]

Thanks Lyco. It looks like there's a road grade (not sure it's active or not) on the south side of the creek going downstream aways from there. Even if long defunct, those tend to make pretty decent trails to walk on. Was figuring on hiking that.

Also looks like there's a SF section a few miles up from the CG. May check that out also.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

The culvert on twin sluice rd in that upper section creates one of the largest scour holes in the entire state. The stream gets fairly flat and due to the dense vegetation it will be virtually unfishable above that culvert.

 

[Swattie87]

When you can see a culvert hole on satellite maps on a stream that small you know it’s a whopper.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Damn that thing looks like a surface mine or a meteorite hit there :lol:

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Its two old rail cars modified into a culvert, with a 4 foot r8 cascade at the outlet. Supposedly it's a major attraction on the opening weekend of trout season.

 

[sandfly]

grew up fishing the upper tioga to where it is a trickle. never caught a brown in the upper stretches even though they have stocked them in there for years. smallmouth are just below mansfield in the acid water above tioga reservoir.

 

[birdog]

The twin sluices location is a very popular spot, resembling a zoo on the opener. Like Lyco mentioned, above that spot it becomes very brush filled. It is also a party spot, pulling people from Bradford and Tioga both.

In my opinion the stream has never had a fantastic population of brookies, but they have always been there in fair numbers. There are still several tribs dumping into the upper Tioga that suffer from AMD. In drought years the stream does get exceptionally low.

Swattie, the old road you mentioned used to travel along the lower portion of the river when it was private land. It has since been turned over to the state and gated. The off-roaders and four wheelers still get up in there, but much of that has stopped. Your idea to explore it is a good one. I wish you luck!

 

[Chaz]

Same old fish, pfbc can’t hold the line on those that insist in stocking reclaimed streams. Clubs and politicians fight tooth and nail for stocking, even when streams start recovering on their own.
Perfect example is Babb Creek, it was doing fine on its own. Then the 2 local clubs started stocking and it hasn’t fished well since. In fact it sucks!

 

[Mike]

Recently described to me was that even in its best habitat stretch upstream from mine acid influenced stretches the river supports only a Class D biomass. Downstream habitat is not as good. I would add that my impression of the river was one of poor and largely shallow habitat in the past due to substantial channelization that was conducted after hurricane Agnes.

Knowing the program as I do, if stocking occurs in the future, I would expect that it would be for one or more good reasons...for example, limited local stockable resources for the amount of angler use that is occurring or could be anticipated and good access.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

https://tcccc-inc.org/upper-tioga-river/

"As recent as the 1970’s, the Tioga River supported Class A wild brook trout populations. "

Im sorry but without speaking for everyone here, i would believe most of us here prefer resource first.
The PFBC is a great organization but they continue to slip here. Whats the hurry? Lets restore it first and give it some time.
I think most of us here would rather they pretend stock it and allocate the saved funds for habitat restoration.

Resource first my butt.

Restoring the wild brook trouts range should be top priority at all times.
Smh.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

It would be interesting to know where the data is to support the claim that the upper Tioga River was a Class A stream. I don't think Mike would lie that the PFBC data shows a class D population. Strictly water quality speaking, I have talked with biologists from DEP that observed better water quality coming into the river from the south than from Armenia Mountain proper. The thought was geology greatly limited the buffering capacity of those streams. Furthermore, downstream from the proposed treatment area the river flows right through Blossburg and is relatively channelized the entire reach to Mansfield.

 

[silverfox]

Mike wrote:
Recently described to me was that even in its best habitat stretch upstream from mine acid influenced stretches the river supports only a Class D biomass. Downstream habitat is not as good. I would add that my impression of the river was one of poor and largely shallow habitat in the past due to substantial channelization that was conducted after hurricane Agnes.

Knowing the program as I do, if stocking occurs in the future, I would expect that it would be for one or more good reasons...for example, limited local stockable resources for the amount of angler use that is occurring or could be anticipated and good access.

So rather than improve the habitat and let wild native fish flourish, the immediate response to low biomass and poor habitat is to stock it?

I just can't wrap my head around that line of thinking.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

I cant either silverfox.
Its like you said earlier, almost like they want to wipe them out.

Why stock over a struggling population? Improve the habitat and let them flourish.

Money? Easier? Access? More places to fish for stocked trout? All really crap poor excuses

 

[silverfox]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
I cant either silverfox.
Its like you said earlier, almost like they want to wipe them out.

Why stock over a struggling population? Improve the habitat and let them flourish.

Money? Easier? Access? More places to fish for stocked trout? All really crap poor excuses

I don't know what the proximity to stocked trout water goal is, but it must be extreme, because the nearest stocked water to Blossburg is 7 miles away, with more about 14 miles away in either direction.

I'm sure there is some fancy analysis of angler (license sales) population proximity to stocked water that they're trying to satisfy. In other words, pander to license sales over resource conservation.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

https://www.depgis.state.pa.us/integrated_report_viewer/index.html

Check out the above link, zoom in on the watershed. A number of the headwater tributaries coming off Armenia Mtn are impaired due to atmospheric deposition along with lingering AMD impacts that may not be readily treatable. If you want, I am sure you could dig up specific water quality info. There are bigger water quality issues than just habitat. Even with the fall brook treatment system, and the proposed active treatment on Morris Run there are still limiting water quality characteristics within the watershed.

 

[Mike]

Lyco...I have no reason to doubt my former colleague. I recommend, however, that if you want to verify biomass info, just contact the present Area Fisheries Manager.

 

[birdog]

The river is channelled through much of Blossburg and All of Mansfield. There is no channeling between.

 

[birdog]

Has anyone noticed the large fracking pond up the road (uphill) of the treatment location?

Classic!

 

[Mike]

Just to clarify, do you mean that the river was bulldozed in those two towns and dikes were built as well or was the river just bulldozed and only in those towns?