They Exist. Early Christmas Present

[Zak]

Here's the other I caught there.

28"

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As for the spinning gear posting up in a fly fishing forum.....you sound like such an elitest Nick. The type of guy that gives fly anglers a bad rap with the rest of the fishing communtiy. It wasn't my intent to offend you, heck, if you read above I even apologize first. I was merely making a friendly point with Brown that, yes, I can confirm the fact that he's being honest here, which I never doubted anyhow. I was excited by the fact that someone showed a photo of a trout larger than I've ever caught there and wanted to show him a few of the trout I've caught there.....regardless of the tackle as that shouldn't really matter.

I'm every bit as careful with a trout whether I'm spinner fishing or fly fishing but I dont stop fishing during the spawn as there is little to no scientific proof that it has any impact on trout what's so ever. It's all just speculation to the best of my knowledge. As another poster said, it's a moral thing. If youre conscience tells you not to fish from mid October on then that's great. Mine doesn't and I really enjoy fishing so I go. I'm a little more cautious about each step but I go. To each their own.

Lastly, another person said he likes how someone posts a big trout and then says it's not as good as it used to be. That one seems obvious. Just because someone still has good fishing at a place doesn't mean it was as good as it used to be. I'm not complaining, just making conversation stating the obvious, which Brown came on and confirmed.

 

[Zak]

Maurice.....little help with this picture too???? Thanks! I tried pasting this to exactly where you said and it still doesn't work for me. Seems so easy and I never used to have trouble but oh well.

Just paste the code from http thru .jpg...the rest just flubs up the editor.

 

[bigslackwater]

It's a 30+ inch trout. I'm glad Brown77 posted about it even though it wasn't on fly gear.

 

[tomitrout]

I'm every bit as careful with a trout whether I'm spinner fishing or fly fishing but I dont stop fishing during the spawn as there is little to no scientific proof that it has any impact on trout what's so ever.

Well, yes and no....with a bit of Google-fu I could point you to the studies that indicate/measured post release mortality of C&R fish....they don't all survive our harassments, regardless of the season or how careful you think you're being. So, you could say there is a scientific basis to not bother these fish at all, as even the most careful C&R fisherman does inadvertently kill a few fish despite his best efforts.

But is there scientific evidence/study of the direct effects of C&R on fish engaged in spawning activity? I personally haven't run across any.

(And this all for discussion, as it appears from this thread that this population of trouts is doing just fine as they haven't been wiped out yet. Even with evidence of folks fishin' for 'em during the spawn over the last couple decades at least....)

 

[pcray1231]

Just seeing if I can help Zak.

From your URL (the pic in photobucket). Upper right. Looks like a chain (means links). Click it. Now, right side. "Direct". Click in the box and it'll copy.

That's your URL. It's a little different than what you're trying to use.

now, what I did:

[*img width=500]pasted URL[/img*]

Take the *'s out.

 

[salmonoid]

tomitrout wrote:
Well NickR does bring up a good point to maybe expand upon.....at what point do you consider a fish to be 'actively spawning'?

Only when it's working a redd?

How 'bout when it's running upstream to spawn? Harassing these fish via C&R might seem like no big deal while they're making their run, but how does the stress of catching that fish affect it's ability to spawn? How long does it take to recover before getting back to the business at hand?

Interesting line of thought, imho.

This line of thinking was the only ponderable piece of any of this for me. The OP was posting in response to the general thread from last year about the existence of 30" browns. While perhaps ironic to show the fish being caught on spinning gear on a FF site, so long as it was taken legally, how the fish was caught is immaterial to the existence of such fish (and provides some visual proof to answer that thread). But if indeed these fish are in and out in one day, then they are either starting a journey of spawning or retreating from a spawn when they are caught. And what impact does that have on a fish that will either be undergoing spawning stress, or has undergone spawning stress? It's certainly not stress less to spawn, then be caught, but is it enough stress to do any actual damage to the fish?

I know for myself, to answer pcray's question of fishing Spring Creek in December, that I generally do not catch the spawning fish, judging from the size of the fish that I do hook. I'm sure you could trigger an aggression strike from a spawning fish, but they generally seem disinterested. And this held true even at night, as I took the skunk there the evening of December 3, despite plentiful fish. So I fish with a clean conscience that I'm not harming spawning fish, since 6-8" fish generally aren't spawning.

The only sure way to never affect the fish is to just stay home, all year. Watch fishing videos (although you may be guilty by association, because some of the fish caught in those videos may not have survived either). Even C&R is a blood sport, but in my calculated risk assessment, there's relatively low blood spilled, and the trouts are pretty resilient, despite what the Interwebz might have them believe. To balance out the spin angle, I've read reports on here of FFers who have fought 20" fish in the summer on 6-8x tippet for 20 minutes. Methinks those fish might be stressed too, when they are released...

 

[moon1284]

Definitely a huge fish. No disrespect, but to me, this type of fishing is like shooting fish in a barrel. It's much more impressive to catch them in the summer rather than when they are concentrated in a small stream during spawning season.

I understand the legwork that goes into finding these spots, but once you find the fish its not hard to catch them. In my city, I can go to a spot where large migratory fish from lake Ontario basically get trapped and catch (not hook) 20+ fish in an afternoon. Same story, a handful of people know about it and are extremely tight lipped (to the point of holding the spot, but not fishing when non-regulars are within eyesight to not draw attention to the spot). It's so easy it gets boring.

Being in a depressed city, the locals are rough around the edges, and if pics were posted online it would no doubt get ugly.

 

[Brown71]

Thanks for many of the sensible posts and replies.

Zak, that's a nice fish.

pcray, thanks for the support lol.

I try to target these fish after the major part of the spawn is over. Sure, there is always overlap, but for the most part most of what I get is post spawn, as this fish most definitely was. Its belly was empty that is for sure.

And what I didn't say or include In the original post is although I walk this stream many, many evenings, early on many, many evenings I DO NOT even carry a rod of any type. I go to scout/look and see where they seem to be in the spawn process. I fish 150+ days a year, I can afford to have a little patience.

As far as it being better 15 years ago, the MAJOR reason that I am aware of, and I have been in contact with the PFBC and local WCO's who are personal friends about this is that about 9 or 10 years back there was some SERIOUS pollution that got into this stream, and all but wiped out the resident population. I will not go into further detail as there was a good bit of argument/confusion as to why it happened, who to blame, etc. Its not worse because 2 guys each fall catch a handful of 20"+ trout there each fall, and put them back with the many others in the steam. But, that is the truth, and its lucky it rebounded the way it did.

 

[moon1284]

Brown-

Honestly it's a great fish. I hope I didn't come off too much like a dk in the post above.

 

[krayfish2]

#1 - tremendous fish (no matter the source)
#2 - tremendous fish (no matter the method caught)

Now, this is where I'll become the bad guy. Going back to the infamous 30" brown thread, the majority said that they didn't exist "outside of the fish running from Ontario and Erie". I don't want to nitpick but Brown's fish is a lake resident that moved up a small feeder to spawn. IMHO, lake run is lake run. Ontario, Erie, Raystown, Kinzua, FE Walter, etc. Of course the lake run fish are bigger due to forage base and not having to fight a current 24/7. I see it as the elusive 30" wild stream / river roaming brown hasn't been caught...YET. It's coming though. Rat pattern on a 2/0, articulated streamer, or whatever..... it's coming. There may not be many but I do believe they exist and will be found in the bigger rivers......probably by accident.

Brown,
Don't take that as a dismissal of your fish but a challenge to find the river cousin of that critter !! I'll be giving it a go.

 

[Brown71]

Trust me guys no offense taken! I enjoy this forum immensely. What I like is most guys here are legit fisherman, and that's the way my Dad and I are. We will fish anywhere, anytime, in any weather conditions for trout, and we do LOL.

Kray, I specifically enjoy your posts and commentary. And just to add to what you said, YES that has been done LOL.

The original 30"+ post on here, I think from 2013, was started by me, and went on to post a pic of a 30 1/2" male brown from a popular PA limestoner that everyone knew when I posted the pic LOL. That fish was caught on October 16, 2010, and weighed 11 lbs even and I did indeed keep that one as it was my first ever over 30". I posted pics of it and then pics of the mount after several requests from other members. If you hunt back you may find it, if not I will be more than willing to repost.

This was a wild stream brown with no lake nearby LOL.

 

[Brown71]

And kray I agree with you 100%, lake run is lake run even if its a non great lake. They get the length just not the weight of a GL fish.

 

[geebee]

just my .02 here - i think its better to take these fish on a spinning rod than a fly rod, if you are going to target them.

my experience with Atlantics of similar size is that you can get them in and away in half the time.

these are amazing fish - Zak's especially, that Kype is typical of a male that has spawned at least twice or more before.

my major thought about this, is where the hell do the parr and smolts go ? these populations are obviously self sustainable so the YoY and yearlings are surviving somewhere cool enough and without excessive predation aren't they ?

to find out would be an interesting story i think !

cheers

Mark

 

[Zak]

The stream is full of smaller browns year round. Most of them appear to reside in the stream for their intire lives but some leave to grow and return down the road. During the summer its just your normal run of the mill lesser known wild brown trout stream. Water temp never gets much above 63 degrees.

 

[PocketWater]

salmonoid wrote:

The only sure way to never affect the fish is to just stay home, all year. Watch fishing videos (although you may be guilty by association, because some of the fish caught in those videos may not have survived either). Even C&R is a blood sport, but in my calculated risk assessment, there's relatively low blood spilled, and the trouts are pretty resilient, despite what the Interwebz might have them believe. To balance out the spin angle, I've read reports on here of FFers who have fought 20" fish in the summer on 6-8x tippet for 20 minutes. Methinks those fish might be stressed too, when they are released...

I'm going to wear rubber gloves and perfect my trout noodling skills.

 

[McSneek]

Zak wrote:

As for the spinning gear posting up in a fly fishing forum.....you sound like such an elitest Nick.

Go on YouTube and watch Field and Stream's "Hookshots" series. Search and eventually you'll find NickR going after Michigan steelheads with spin gear on one of the episodes. Doesn't seem like that much of an elitist to me.

Sorry if this was your dirty little secret Nick but I'm outing you. LOL

 

[NickR]

Haha I was forced to do that. Well, they actually paid me in pierogies. What was I supposed to do?

 

[krayfish2]

He hooked me in the ear with a mepps on the Susky.

 

[Zak]

I gotta admit. This post has been entertaining if nothing else. Well done fellas!

 

[pcray1231]

Sure it wasn't a Joe's fly?

Eh, what's funny is that I've used bait on fly gear, and flies on spinning gear. Neither very often. But I do tie plenty of egg patterns for my bait fishing family. Seems they stay on the hook better than Mike's.... They've also been known to use stonefly nymphs and the occasional musky streamer (sometimes tipped with live bait, though).