The "Troutiest" of rods?

[gfen]

The people, not the equipment.

You post to FFR, and have witnessed that everyone is absolutely positive that every "vintage" rod needs to be lined at least one heavier, and that any modern maker's dual rated rod, its [always the heavier line.

Now, if you'll pardon me, I have to go over there and start a dozen odd threads about which expensive reel matches which expensive rod I just bought by posting two dozen identical photos of Hardys on reel seats.

 

[springer1]

LoL - Oh yes, they typically do like it slower over there !!!

 

[troutbert]

What is FFR?

 

[bikerfish]

fiberglass flyrodders.

I'll say this about glass. lot's of folks are overlining graphite rods to get the rod to load and to FEEL the rod load, it also SLOWS down the rod. I've found this is not needed with glass rods, the ones I fish, and I have plenty, all feel good, load nicely, and cast wonderfully with the line weight they were designed for. once in a while on bigger waters, I'll underline a rod, allowing the rod to load with more line out than usual.
for those that think glass is stupid, outdated, old fashioned and such, go try a modern glass rod and you just might be surprised. there are some great tapers, they are light, and they are just plain fun.

 

[k-bob]

Right overlining just moves the window of ranges at which a rod casts well closer to you. For brookies, I just put 3w lines on 2w rods and cast medium sized dry flies well from 15 to 35 feet instead of 20 to 40 ft.

You cast the weight of the line, and rods might be built to cast about 40 ft of the line weight the rod is labeled with. If you usually make shorter casts, because you fish small streams, then a heavier line may work better.

As swattie noted there is a compromise on a rare long pool on a brookie stream, but why set a rod up for 5% of the casts?

Yard cast with a tape measure .... Setting a rod to feel good at 50 ft may involve moving the window of ranges at which it casts efficiently away from you. This can make it less effective at real world 15-20 ft casts on small streams.

 

[afishinado]

gfen wrote:
The people, not the equipment....

True statement above.

All the major rod manufacturers offer fast as well as medium and slow action rods in their lines. Test cast any/all to find which one best suits your casting style and type of fishing you do . No NSA-like subterfuge going on at all with the rod mfgs.

I will say, many to most guys test casting a rod will pull out a huge gob of line and try to cast 70 to 80 feet, even when they say they are buying a rod to fish the small to medium trout streams. Doesn't make much sense, but it's the customer is always right.

troutbert wrote:
For those who fish graphite rods, how many of you overline them?

I never have. I'm not sure if I'm missing out. Or if it's a matter of the rod models. Or of casting style / preference.

I'm just curious whether over-lining is a common thing. Or done in a small percentage of cases.

Take your rod(s) out to the lawn and strap on different weight lines for each of the rod and cast to see how they cast. I do use different weight lines for some of my rods based upon how it casts. At times I choose a different weight line for the same rod based on where and what type fishing I plan to do.

There are a whole bunch of different uses for a rod and a whole bunch of different casters that use a rod, therefore the number stamped on the rod should be looked at as an average or even a starting point.

 

[k-bob]

I use rio gold lines that have a color change when 40 ft comes off the reel... Always see it yard casts, brookie fishing not so much...

Putting that color change in the line is really smart imho.

 

[pcray1231]

Just wish they put it at 20 ft instead of 40!

I have a Rio Gold 5 wt line. I use it on my big stream rods and sometimes small stream rods. But on the big stream rods, it's fished the likes of Penns and the LJR. On stream, I still very rarely see the color change. And when I do, I'm screwin around and casting rather than catching fish. I can cast 40+ ft just fine on just about any rod, it's not approaching my max casting range. But casting range and "fishing" range are two very different things. I almost never need to cast that far, and when I do, I struggle to fish effectively, when you take into account slack line casts, mends, etc.

Remember that the distances we're talking about here don't include the leader. That's the distance of fly line beyond the tip of the rod. Frankly, big stream or small, it's relatively rare that I fish more than 20-25 ft of fly line.

 

[k-bob]

"Frankly, big stream or small, it's relatively rare that I fish more than 20-25 ft of fly line."

exactly ... that's why I like two weight rods with three weight lines for brookies with dry flies.

 

[MBBTrout]

The question anglers may want to ask themselves is are you more interested in catching fish in a small stream with a smooth presentation or are you really trying to cast as far across or up a stream as you can. Matching line weights to rod rates generally mean you can easily cast to an distance of 30 feet and beyond. If most of your casts are less that 30 feet on a small stream then overlining a weight number or two may indeed help you with your presentations. The answer is try line and rod combos in situations you are most likely to encounter on the stream. Don't be tricked into buying another line weight until you know the situations under which you with most likely be fishing. Stay flexible my friends!

 

[RLeeP]

Due to their age or their lower end costs, all my rods are slow to medium action. I don't know much about fast action rods and what little I do know about them, I'd just as soon I'd never learned it.

I don't like them...

That said, I only routinely over line one of my rods, a 9' 6 wgt. Diamondback Americana. It is the rod I use for smallmouth on large creeks and small rivers. I think it works best for this fishing with a 7 wgt. line. I can throw a popper farther with the 7 wgt. on it.

On the other hand, I'll sometimes underline my Far & Fines and my FF605 glass with a DT4 if I'm fishing small flies in clear water (which I don't really don't do that much of, seeing that I feel about the same way about very small flies that I do about fast rods.

In either situation (over or under line), it may actually serve a purpose or it may just be nonsense/voodoo. I have no idea. I only know its what I do...

 

[tomitrout]

Swttie:

Bottom line: X feet of 5wt line weighs more than X feet of 4 wt line. Therefore at shorter distances (up to the distance the rod was rated at), the heavier weight line will load the rod more efficiently. At extremely short distances, 2 or even 3 line weights may be what's needed to load the rod most efficiently.

F = m * a

So, yeah, well, there are really two ways to look at it.

Increase the mass of the line (the common route as described), or improve your casting so as to impart a greater acceleration on the given mass of the line to create the force to load the rod.


So when you need to reach out an extra 10 or 15 feet while fishing (an effective upping of the rated line weight beyond the tip), do any of you guys swap out spools to a lighter line weight, in order to make the rod work most 'efficiently' while on stream? If you can't adjust your casting to account for the speed of the rod or the distance you're casting, then a little practice probably wouldn't hurt. If you bought a 4wt and need to load it with a 6, then sorry, you bought yourself the wrong rod for your skillz and there are better options out there for you, thanks for playing, Sage appreciates your business, wait 'til you see next year's line up!!!


As far as the original post...the troutiest rod of them all?
Either an 8'/5wt or 7'/4wt in cane, there ain't nothing 'troutier' than those and they will cover all your bases. "It's a poor craftsmen who blames his tools."

 

[Swattie87]

tomi - No, I don't switch spools in that situation...but that's just out of laziness and not wanting to carry a spare spool all day. I'd agree doing so would help with the longer cast and presentation that's needed there. As you mentioned, I just adjust my cast as best I can to throw the longer distance that's needed. It's just that in the small stream fishing I do, those longer casts (say the 30 ft. the rod was rated at, or longer) occur maybe a handful of times per outing. 99% of the other casts I make in a given day on a small stream are under 30 feet. I'd guess 90% are under 20 feet. I'd rather have to adjust my cast to try to compensate for throwing too much mass a handful of times per day on long casts, than adjust my cast for throwing too little mass on nearly every other cast I make during the day. My Brookie rod is a 4wt. If I were to fish it on a larger, more open stream where I was expecting to regularly make 20-30 ft casts all day long, I'd put on my reel with 4wt line.

I get what you're saying, and your physics is sound, but why work harder than you have to? If you're making short casts all day long, overlining the rod will make it work the most efficient at those short distances. For short casts on small streams, both the 4wt and 6wt in your example would be equally inefficient if they were strung with their listed line weights because you'd be working harder (more acceleration) to load them at those short distances.