The price of flies

[troutbert]

The price of ice cream.

 

[poopdeck]

I paid the $8.37. Based on some of the comments I probably should have refrained from uploading the thread. Because I do tie, and haven't bought a fly in over 10 years, I was just very surprised at the price for two nymphs.

I think it was a great post. It created good conversation. I’m with you. 8.37 for a couple very simplistic flies is robbery no matter who tied them or where they were tied. I tie when I don’t want to be fishing, like when it’s raining, dark, cold, oppressively hot, or after a long day at work. It doesn’t take away from any fishing time, just time when I’m not fishing.

 

[mt_flyfisher]

Okay, I had a real harebrained idea this morning. Drive up to Big Spring, where I have never caught a trout, and fish in a totally blue sky and 91 degrees. Not using my head. Anyway I realized that there wasn't one single sub surface fly in any of the six fly boxes in my vest. I stopped off at TCO Boiling Springs and bought one scud and one (I have no idea what it is) bedhead nymph. I figured worst case $5.00. The guy behind the counter just looks at me cooly and says "That will be $8.37". I was numb! How could two nymphs cost $4.00 each?

Matt -

I think you could be a bit like me in that my wife is constantly reminding me that “You don’t know what things cost these days.” 😀

Well, maybe I don’t know what some things cost, like groceries, because my wife does most of our grocery shopping. I believe I do have a reasonably good idea of what fly fishing and tying items cost though, because that’s what I keep buying. And, in that regard I’ve found that TCO is one of the higher cost fly shops around.

However, I don’t have a good handle on what flies cost, since, like you, I tie 99% of the ones I use. So I just did a sampling of a half dozen fly shops that I buy from, and was a bit surprised to find flies, similar to the ones you bought, priced from $2.50 to as much as $3.35 each. (Still less than TCO, however.)

I think that fly tying is a great compliment to fly fishing, but I don’t think that it will automatically save a person money over purchasing flies, unless a person is willing and/or able to acquire their tools and materials “on the cheap” (certainly not buying all from TCO 😀), or plan to tie large quantities of flies over an extended time.

I have lots of fly boxes filled with flies that I’ve tied over the years, and may only be tying 100 or so flies a year now (who’s counting), but I still spend $500-$1,000/year on fly tying tools and materials. (Yikes! Looked at that way, my cost per fly is WAY more than what TCO charges!)

A Whiting saddle at $240, 2 boxes of hooks (100/box) at $60, 2 Tiemco bobbins at $80, a pair of crappy scissors at $50, a wonderful dubbing twister at $50, and my list of last year’s purchases goes on…

By the way, here’s that wonderful dubbing twister:

Now, I’ve got my eyes on a new Vise (I like the color green). 😀 But I’d never recover it’s cost on a per fly tied basis.

 

[poopdeck]

I’m the exact opposite to the above post. I have less than 50 bucks tied up in four vises. Everyone of them ties a fly no better and no faster then the other. I have about 50 bucks wrapped up in 20 or so bobbins and I haven’t spent more than 10 bucks on a pair of scissors. I’m not a gear junkie and in no way believe expensive tools tie better or faster flies. There is nothing difficult, intricate or difficult about fly tying that requires the most expensive tools out there. I have a whip finisher that I made from a Chinese food container handle. It works just as good as a highly coveted FM whip finisher. I’ve never spent more than 50 bucks for hackle and I won’t. At least not until fish can count barbules and see as well as I.

You can recoup and lower your start up costs quick with every lost or mangled fly so go out and fish your nymphs deep on the bottom with reckless abandon. You will see how really easy it is to catch trout when your not worried about losing a fly.

 

[Nocktavius]

Fly tying, just like fly fishing, can be as expensive as you want it to be. If you’re buying 800$ vises, 250$ cree capes, and tools that would look more at home in the OR at the Mayo Clinic then you’re probably in it more for the “finer things” aspect than you are to save money.

But, there’s no question that I can buy a pack of hares ear dubbing, feather or two, a few sizes of jig hooks, tungsten beads, some sulky, and some lead/copper wire for like 50$ and along some basic thread tie enough walts worms and pheasant tails to last a lifetime. And they will all be identical in weight, size, have the exact color and taper I want and I’ll have the utmost confidence in how I need to fish them in every water type.

And I have enough of every pattern that I’m never afraid to make a risky cast, get hung up on bottom, give a couple away to people who ask what I’m using if I’m having success, drop a few in the river when I open my box bc it’s a disaster, etc. And I tie mostly while I’m drinking a beer and watching sports so it’s not like my time is particularly valuable.

 

[wbranch]

So, the problem with TCO is that they got big and get their flies from the major distributors probably through some exclusive deal. The average Umpqua fly with a tung bead is 4 bucks, which is only slightly outpacing the average Fulling Mill at like $3.45. Both will sneak in a "signature tie" that does not even have a tungsten bead, and leave the price in place, which is shady too.

The mark up was not that high at the shop in other words. Now the big distributors, on the other hand.... Charging top dollar for simple euro flies tied on the cheap in foreign lands, even with quality hooks and beads is still shady. Orvis and TCO are just passing that on to you, and you paid, which only makes it worse!

It would of been cheap of me to tell the guy I didn't want them. $8 isn't going to put me in the poor house.

 

[wbranch]

The beauty of fly tying is you can create EXACTLY the fly you want in your preferred sizes & colors. In many cases, it will be a fly you CAN'T find for $4 in a fly shop. You also have the advantage of creating a fly based on a natural you capture and bring back to the tying bench, something I've done MANY times.

In my evolution as fly fisherman I first bought what someone else thought would catch fish. When I started fly tying, I copied the flies I bought. Later I modified the colors of those flies to match the local bugs which even though I don't think it was necessary, it was more fun.

Finally, I started making my own creations based on my own ideas or things I learned from others and got to the point where I am today where 90% of the files I fish you will NEVER find in a fly shop.

That doesn't mean those other flies won't work, but why buy & try when I know I have patterns I can create at home that work for me just as well or better.

BTW - I have big wide hands and fat fingers and I regularly tie flies as small as the TMC 32's. I can also whip finish by hand...

Errr, whip finish the head of a fly by hand with no problem but I'd rather use a whip finisher...

The only disadvantage to having big hands/fat fingers when fly tying is I jab myself with hook points more than the daintily fingered folks.

If there is an advantage, my wife hasn't yet commented on any correlations...

It is virtually impossible to buy well tied thorax duns with CDC wings. I prefer CDC wings, they look natural and a little Frog Fanny pops them right up.

 

[Dr.J 1952]

I’m going to go with those who have said that fly tying enhances the fly fishing experience. I’ll never forget the time I first used a parachute sulphur that I tied and I caught a wild brown on Spruce Creek. I tie mine with a couple turns of orange dubbing( bought from Cold Spring Anglers many years ago) behind the eye. I haven’t seen sulphurs tied like this that can be bought. There are many patterns I use that aren’t sold in shops. I’ve been tying for over thirty years. I was fortunate to learn from a master tyer. I used $25-$30 vices for twenty years. Finally bought a Regal several years back. I still have top grade necks that I bought over twenty years ago for $90. Same with dubbing. I usually spend money yearly on beads, hooks and thread. I learned to whip finish by hand and just learned to use a tool a few years ago. I’ll tie flies based on where I plan on fishing. I put flies in trees, lose them to snags and hackles on dries get undone but I’m paying pennies for my flies. I enjoy just tying but I’m a “crafty” guy. Over the course of time, what you pay out is negligible. You don’t have to use the most expensive hooks either.

 

[wbranch]

Yeah, I was cool with it. I was puzzled by all the replies telling you to learn to tie flies.

Yes, it was quite comical, especially since I mentioned I tie well.

 

[wbranch]

mt_flyfisher wrote;

"I think that fly tying is a great compliment to fly fishing, but I don’t think that it will automatically save a person money over purchasing flies, unless a person is willing and/or able to acquire their tools and materials “on the cheap” (certainly not buying all from TCO 😀), or plan to tie large quantities of flies over an extended time."

You guys need to remember I'm pretty old. I haven't bought a fly tying tool in at less twenty years. I bought all my Hoffman saddles when I used to go to the Somerset, NJ show in the late 1990's & early 2000's.. I think at the time a #1 saddle was $60.00. My buddy & I would share the cost. When we got home I would place the saddle, feather side down, and very carefully cut the skin with a razor blade. I still have enough grizzly, cream, medium dun, brown, barred ginger and barred cream to last me the rest of my life. Back when I was a working man my company toyed with the idea of making the HMH travel vise and pedestal vises. We met with the owners and the company paid for one of each. I have the pedestal model and my friend has the travel vise. We decided manufacturing fly vises wasn't our forte. I bought my roll top desk back in 2000. It has all the storage I need for every piece of material I own. Someday that will probably be up for sale on the Swap forum.

 

[Nymph-wristed]

I was numb! How could two nymphs cost $4.00 each?

"It would of been cheap of me to tell the guy I didn't want them. $8 isn't going to put me in the poor house."

That is a long way from your original post, just saying.... I think it was @Clams that said you paid a convenience charge for something you needed at that moment. I think most guys who buy flies in bulk are buying online, so the shops are not making a ton on flies.

That said, I agree it's too much, but everything is priced right now at a price they know we'll pay, until we stop paying it, of course.

 

[CRB]

Just about everything consumers purchase has gone up 20-30% over the past 3.5 years, gas,food, taxes, guns ammo if you can find it and BEER.

 

[mt_flyfisher]

You guys need to remember I'm pretty old. I haven't bought a fly tying tool in at less twenty years. I bought all my Hoffman saddles when I used to go to the Somerset, NJ show in the late 1990's & early 2000's.. I think at the time a #1 saddle was $60.00. My buddy & I would share the cost. When we got home I would place the saddle, feather side down, and very carefully cut the skin with a razor blade. I still have enough grizzly, cream, medium dun, brown, barred ginger and barred cream to last me the rest of my life. Back when I was a working man my company toyed with the idea of making the HMH travel vise and pedestal vises. We met with the owners and the company paid for one of each. I have the pedestal model and my friend has the travel vise. We decided manufacturing fly vises wasn't our forte. I bought my roll top desk back in 2000. It has all the storage I need for every piece of material I own. Someday that will probably be up for sale on the Swap forum.

I began tying flies in the mid-1950’s, mostly by hand and using my father’s bench vise in the basement to hold the hooks. I remember what I paid for many of my “real” fly fishing and fly tying purchases that I began to acquire in the 1960’s. (And the prices that I don’t remember, I still have old Hille’s and Herter’s catalogs to check the prices, which is where I bought a lot of those items.)

In the early 1970’s, I bought Hardy lightweight series reels from Hardy’s in London for about $25 each, and at the same time I began my own business of importing feathers and other equipment from India and China, and was 1 of only 2 importers in PA authorized by the PA Dept of Agriculture (Ray Rumph was the other).

My purchase cost for Grade #1 necks at the time (including shipping and import tax) was something like $0.625 per neck, and I sold them for $2-$10 each. Before they were restricted, #1 Jungle Cock cost me around $4.00.

I remember selling a number of those necks to some of the better known fly tyers and fisherman of that era, one of whom bought quite a few of those “inexpensive” necks from me - Paul Jorgensen - proving that you you don’t have to spend a lot of money to buy fly tying materials to produce top notch flies.

 

[mt_flyfisher]

Can this possibly be a coincidence?

My wife went with my daughter-in-law today to pick up my grand daughter and her friend who’ve been at a summer camp this week near Newville.

Just now my wife called me on the telephone, saying that they had stopped at TCO in Boiling Springs on their way home and she wanted to know if there was anything I wanted her to buy for me while she was there.

(I’m not going to repeat what I told her.) 😀

My son and daughter in law had their wedding reception at Allenberry when they were married. Other than that, I have no idea why they were in Boiling Springs this afternoon.

 

[goose54cdd]

My comment was unfair. But I do build rods and have tied my own leaders. Let me rephrase that comment. People who don't tie are missing out on a lot of fun and when they become proficient they will save money.

There you go!