THE MIND OF A FOOL!

[poopdeck]

maxima12 wrote:
Poopdeck, I feel sorry for you. Wish you had more time

I was lucky, made time

Maxima12

Don't feel sorry for me, feel sorry for all the kids who's fathers don't spend every moment they can with them. I choose to be with my kids over fishing. They never liked fishing so I didn't force them to fish and I preferred being with the family over fishing without them. I don't feel I missed out on a single thing.

 

[franklin]

troutbert wrote:

maxima12 wrote:

Well you got your agenda and I have mine. I prefer a youth and women involvement, with stocking fish.

And you think that we are against those things?

Why would you think that?

I've never seen anyone on here arguing against youth and women fishing.

And there have been VERY few people on here who have advocated ending the trout stocking program.

Many people on here, probably a majority, favor shifting hatchery trout away from wild and native trout streams and towards other waters.

But that is not advocating ending or even reducing the hatchery trout program. It's advocating better management which would increase the total number of trout (wild + stocked) in the streams.

And that shift in stocking would, in PA, likely put more fish closer to the larger population centers. Which increases opportunities for those very people Max wants to recruit.

 

[franklin]

Mike wrote:
I'm not necessarily buying the idea that streams across the board are generally crowded, opening day's first two hours aside on stocked waters. But even on opening day there have been angler counts on a few Northcentral and Northeastern stocked streams with no anglers at 8 AM. As for general crowding, in 1991 there were 1.1 million licensed anglers in Pa and as of the most recent figure that I have seen for 2019 sales, the number is hundreds of thousands less than that. My experiences with crowding now are not much different than they were then; they're weren't any crowds other than the first week and then the first two days of the early inseason stockings other than on a small minority of very popular waters.

Tyler Park which is within 20 miles of several hundred thousand people has almost no one fishing after the first week. Those few who are fishing seem to be targeting warm water species.

 

[pcray1231]

Fly fishermen on the rise at about 14 percent of total fisherman.

Sounds bout right. That's including the big river fishermen for walleye, lake guys for bass, the Erie boat crowd, etc. Bet it's considerably higher if you narrow it to % on streams that have wild trout present! Not that there aren't still plenty of bait fishermen.

And lets also keep in mind that it's not fly or bait. A very high number of fly fishermen also fish bait in certain circumstances. And vice versa.

I prefer a youth and women involvement, with stocking fish. The young one's said> fishing with friends and family# 1 and catching fish #2

Can't say I understand your argument dude.

1. Why do youth and women = bait? Lots of people learn on fly equipment. Not that I have a problem with learning on bait either.

2. I'm not anti-stocking. My position is basically that the Class A definition needs to be lowered a bit. If it's viable as a fishery without stocking, it shouldn't be stocked. IMO lots of class B's and C's are viable. But like they've done with Penns, if a section is upgraded to no stocking, those fish should still be stocked somewhere else that needs them. Many of your larger stocked streams (which don't contain wild fish) are understocked, IMO. Put MORE in those places.

 

[Mike]

To clarify, all other things being equal, stream sections start to see a substantial reduction in the stocking rate once their average width exceeds 20 m. Examples in the SE: Maiden Ck, Section 02; Tulpehocken Ck, Section 08; Neshaminy Ck...Tyler Park section (04?);French Ck (most downstream section that ends in the outskirts of Phoenixville); Ltl Schuylkill River, Section 08 at Port Clinton. I may be missing a couple, but this is certainly most of them. These sections are either classified as 1S Rivers or 1L Rivers. Before I retired I submitted angler use/count info that strongly suggested that 1S Rivers in urban and metro areas should receive higher stocking rates than at present given their good to high angler use counts. There is hope that this may occur in the future.

As for pcray's comment above, I am one who fishes bait, lures, and flies depending upon any number of factors, including which I think will be most productive given the conditions.

 

[silverfox]

maxima12 wrote:
As of 2017, 49 million people fish in the usa. Ages 6 to 12 very higher than 13 to 17. If a child has not fished by age 12, it is unlikely he or she will fish later in life! Fact! That is why I preach youth!

Hispanic fishing on the rise. Women fishing is targeted by all the major companies like Orvis and Patagonia. One problem though. 37 percent of women are discriminated in the fly fishing world, by you got it men. Perhaps, let me share. 1 women guide to 90 male guides!

You want wild trout and impose catch and release projects all through the state, your reach is just little bitty, until you understand the full impact of fishing. Fly fishermen on the rise at about 14 percent of total fisherman. With that being your 24 or older and of a higher money value than the rest. And don't forget your presence decreases dramatically at the age of 44. I know you want to rant and rage over Maxima 12 claim! Blow your horn, a little plastic noisemaker. Your not me and most likely few will follow.

Well you got your agenda and I have mine. I prefer a youth and women involvement, with stocking fish. The young one's said> fishing with friends and family# 1 and catching fish #2
Naturally, I go with youth and speed cause I am tired of having to stop for all the old to catch up.

If you don't get it, shame on you!
Maxima12

I don't know where you get the idea that stock & keep = more kids and women fishing. As a father of 2 young girls (your target demographic), I can assure you with 100% certainty that fly fishing for wild trout triggered more passion in my young girls than the worm dunking they experienced prior. They're not as interested in ugly finless trout, crowds, worms, trash or pellet head water. I learned this through trial and error.

Part of this is the competition angle of early season bait fishing for stocked fish on marginal streams. The fish were either put down by excessive hardware flinging, harvested heavily, or simply uninterested in feeding. Counter that with beautiful scenery, less people and eager, beautiful wild trout, and it's pretty clear which any sane person (kid, girl, boy, woman, whatever) would prefer.

I just don't get the worms+stocked trout = higher angler interest. I frankly think there would be more fisherpeople in general if it weren't for the current stocking/season approach. Take anyone who even has the slightest interest in fishing out fly fishing for wild trout and see if they don't get hooked.

 

[FarmerDave]

I don't know where you get the idea that stock & keep = more kids and women fishing.

More than one have questioned this. I'd question it too, but I think I understand where this comes from.

It has to do with age, and inability to empathise.

I grew up in the 60s and 70 and I am guessing maxi has me by a few years.

1. Back then, I didn't know anyone who fly fished. Dad and my uncles fished with bait, so I fished with bait.
2. When it came to trout fishing, the mentality was ... If someone wanted to fish for trout, they had to go to a stocked stream.
3. Goal then was limiting out.

That was my expeirience as a kid, and I am sure I was not alone.

But a lot of things have changed since then.

Fly fishing is still a minority, but growing.
The more adults that learn how to fly fish and C&R, the more children will be taught the same.

As the validity of the youth argument loses ground, the argument just gets louder.

Do I think bait angling should be outlawed? Hell no.

Do I think C&R should be a general regulation? Hell no.

Do I think all trout stocking should cease? No, but it really wouldn't bother me if it did.

 

[Mike]

I have had kids tell me that they don't like fishing because sitting around waiting for a fish to bite is boring. I have then told them that I am constantly moving and casting when fishing for most species and their eyes lighted up. Action is the name of the game for most kids, so if they are at least casting and better yet moving, that may keep them more interested.

 

[Wild_Trouter]

@Mike...You hit the nail on the head. When my dad got me into fly-fishing forty years ago, I didn't really like it at first because we started out going after trout. He then started taking me to farm ponds, Lake Luxembourg (Core Creek SP), and others where I could get into gills, crappie, etc. The constant action is what got me hooked. It was then that I really wanted to pursue trout and other species. I think the key with kids and women (have both who fish regularly in my family) is to have constant action to keep the interest level up. I also believe the warmwater lake fish really helped to hone my skills so that I could be more successful with trout.

 

[PennKev]

maxima12 wrote:


Stocking and killing of fish, the reason not to fish. I may be blinded in my thinking, somewhere, somehow, maybe I can just get one more to fish. Think of me as Schindler's Fish! Just one more, if I could just get one more!

Does this count towards Goodwin's Law?

 

[FarmerDave]

Wild_Trouter wrote:
@Mike...You hit the nail on the head. When my dad got me into fly-fishing forty years ago, I didn't really like it at first because we started out going after trout. He then started taking me to farm ponds, Lake Luxembourg (Core Creek SP), and others where I could get into gills, crappie, etc. The constant action is what got me hooked. It was then that I really wanted to pursue trout and other species. I think the key with kids and women (have both who fish regularly in my family) is to have constant action to keep the interest level up. I also believe the warmwater lake fish really helped to hone my skills so that I could be more successful with trout.

What he and Mike said.

There wasn't much trout fishing around where I grew up, so I started fishing for warm water species. Most of it was in farm ponds. Early on, I noticed all the bluegill and bass eating bugs off the surface around the lily pads. So, I bought some store bought flies and tied them on the mono using a spinning rod. All I needed was to hit around the lily pads, and it worked.

When I was 11 or 12, I bought an old bamboo fly rod and although I figured out later I wasn't doing it right, it was off to the races.

I didn't use it for trout until years later and IMO I think that was a good thing. Oh, I trout fished with relatives from time to time, but those memories of fishing stocked streams for the most part aren't pleasant ones. The exception was when the suckers were biting. That was fun.

It wasn't until I was old enough to drive that I got interested in fishing for natives in the tiny streams and eventually started taking the fly rod.

To this day, I am still not a big fan of catching stocked trout, but they do in a pinch.

 

[PennypackFlyer]

I kinda glanced at most of the posts. Opening day is an eye opener for any fisherman. The rudeness of several, the leaving of the trash, the fighting over a spot to fish, are all deterrents to fishing. I've been threatened with violence a couple of times. My recommendation is to take some (Kids/ladies/neighbors) fishing when it's warm enough out, not raining and the waters are clear. It does not look like I will get to often a chance this year. I'd say to start off with sunnies, rock bass, etc. to allow the newbe to enjoy the tug. Gradually break them into the other fishing ventures and harsh realities.

For many a reasons listed above, I pray that we never find intelligent life elsewhere's. We will surely "f" them over as well. I am thinking positive on this.

I took my lady sunny fishing last Saturday and she brought her chair as she always does. I think she sat down in it for maybe 10 minutes out of the 4 hours. I also had a guilty feeling come to me....I have 5 flyrods and she only has 1. (Thank God, the guilt went away pretty fast.)

 

[Acristickid]

Children-Kids

Forget opening day.

You are missing out if you have kids and you are not taking advantage of the youth fishing days.

It was a week before opening day and it was terrific. Everything you are looking for- lots of uneducated hungry fish with virtually no anglers to worry about.

Took two kids out and they caught dozens of fish- only problem was they were enjoying it so much that they wanted to keep fishing and had me out till 8pm.

 

[gulfgreyhound]

I sitll see the smile on your face,Kid. GG

 

[bradtheflyfisherman]

1. Back then, I didn't know anyone who fly fished. Dad and my uncles fished with bait, so I fished with bait. 2. When it came to trout fishing, the mentality was ... If someone wanted to fish for trout, they had to go to a stocked stream. 3. Goal then was limiting out.

Even as someone who grew up in the 1990s...I can echo this as well. Did this exact same thing in Western PA for years growing up. Only did I discover fly fishing through my friend's Dad in high school and my passion for it truly started in college in Central PA. I grew tired of the crowds, trash, easy to catch stockers, and was looking for a true challenge - targetting wild trout. I was exposed to beautiful locations where they lived - which was a complete opposite of where I was fishing for stocked trout in Western PA.

Stocked trout have their place in waterways that do not hold a viable wild trout population. I have no interest in catching stocked trout in the Class A, B and C streams I consistently fish. (currently catching a ton of holdovers in a Class A that I love because they stocked it and no one has taken the fish...what a waste of money - put those fish in an easily accessible location so people can catch them and let the wild browns thrive!!) I fly fish for wild fish because the majority of the time I am enjoying the peace and quiet, going on some sort of adventure into the wilderness whether it be with friends or solo, and catching and releasing beautiful healthy fish that present me with many challenges and obstacles to catching them. I work a lot during the week, my life is a bit hectic at times. I want nothing more than to get it away from all the chaos around Philadelphia on the weekends and drive up into the Lehigh Valley or Poconos. I do not want to fight for fishing space at a lake or stream, see trash everywhere, and catch stockers. That is not why I fly fish, that is not what I find enjoyable.

Stocked trout have a place - and as many have said I believe it is in easily accessible locations - local lakes, streams (that are void of natural trout reproduction) so people can take their kids and introduce them to fishing and for those to limit out of opening day. And as a few have said, I don't think people truly understand that there is the side of fly fishing for wild trout in beautiful locations in PA - up in the mountains, etc. I have taken many friends and girl friends with me to spots hours away and they were utterly confused as to why I was traveling so far just to catch some trout. Hiking around, showing them the scenery and serenity of the nature around the stream, and then catching wild fish truly opened their eyes to this type of fly-fishing - something they have never experienced before in their lives, and was the opposite to what they had done as children, or what they assumed fly fishing for trout involved.

I grew up a spin fisherman using bait and lures for mostly warmwater species by my tastes have changed over time. I still enjoy fishing for bass, walleye, etc. but prefer the challenges of targetting wild trout on the fly rod.