THE MIND OF A FOOL!

Maxima12, I'm so confused!?! Are you anti old guy fisherman (like me) and pro youthful and female anglers? Are you upset that more people aren't fishing in general or fly fishing specifically? Is it that women fisher-people (got to be PC these days) are being discriminated against? I'd like to see the proof source for the 37% figure. Not saying it isn't accurate just would like to see the data myself and analyse the study design for any potential bias. If your primary end point is to get more youngsters/women into fly fishing, I applaud you. I too would like to see more kids/women on the stream. As you mentioned the tackle manufactures are targeting the female market (not sure that's PC enough. NY recognizes some 60 different genders. I for one refuse to go to that level of inclusion!). Most fly shops have programs that promote youth and female fly fishing. I know one one fly shop here in Western PA that has been doing classes for years. Every year there is a waiting list for both the youth and women's classes. If they continue to fish after the classes end, well that in large part, is up to them. As it relates to fly fishing I'll speak on behalf of the old guys who were fly fishing long before "The Movie" came out in the late 80's and exploded the numbers of fly fishermen. Be careful what you wish for. We were use to having the streams to ourselves after the first month or so. It was nice! That's changed now. Not bitching, just stating the facts. I'm sure most of us encourage others to try fishing/fly fishing. I know I have. Not everyone wants to be or has the time to an ambassador for the sport. If you are. I again applaud you!
 
Here is one to get you started. It will take a while to browse and comprehend.

OUTDOOR INDUSTRY FISHING 2018. 2018 special report PDF version.

I will find the industry based report on WOMEN FLYFISHING.

Pretty much all there in report on 2018. Nice read, complex in nature. Will answer some of your questions.

Maxima12
 
There are just some people that we don't want on the stream or in the woods for various different reasons.....Not a fan of 'we are one big family'.

Ron
 
The women's coordinator for Donegal TU held an intro to fly fishing class for women. Eighteen attended and fifteen joined. How's that? Satisfied?
 
salvelinus wrote:
The women's coordinator for Donegal TU held an intro to fly fishing class for women. Eighteen attended and fifteen joined. How's that? Satisfied?
Click to expand...

Our TU chapter has also held womens flyfishing events, and also childrens fishing events.

It's a common thing for TU chapters.

Our TU chapter had a women president for several years, and she did a good job.
 
Maxima, is it impossible to believe that some on here are more concerned with protecting a resource? They care less about the number of people who fish, how old they are, what sex they are and how many they catch and more about a sustainable wild trout population. I just don't understand how that is shameful or foolish. I will certainly listen to your argument but the name calling doesnt help you in my eyes, even if afterwards you say you just wanted to make us think.
 
Good point Ryansheehan from Burke Va. Sometimes what is on my mind, gets lost on paper.

Best regards;
Maxima12
 
Amen ryan.
These posts attempting to "make us think" are rather demonizing and boorish.
I suggest climbing off the soap box for 1 week.
 
I don't get Max's posts or the reasons behind his posts but I sure do enjoy his responses to himself.
 
ryansheehan wrote:
Maxima, is it impossible to believe that some on here are more concerned with protecting a resource? They care less about the number of people who fish, how old they are, what sex they are and how many they catch and more about a sustainable wild trout population. I just don't understand how that is shameful or foolish. I will certainly listen to your argument but the name calling doesnt help you in my eyes, even if afterwards you say you just wanted to make us think.
Click to expand...

This definitely sums up my feelings on this matter, but I'm overall not worried about this stuff at all. Our wild trout are doing better now than ever pretty much.
 
poopdeck wrote:
I don't get Max's posts or the reasons behind his posts but I sure do enjoy his responses to himself.
Click to expand...

And this is really funny.
 
New here and I have to say that I like his open ended way of putting ideas out there. Just my two cents.

I take my grandkids fishing. The boy has been flyfishing with me for a few yrs and he enjoys it. The girl just like to get out usually on opening day and that's about it. I feel I have offered both equally so who knows why.

If recruiting more fisherpeople increases appreciation and awareness about taking care of the planet I am all for it but I honestly doubt it will have that effect in any big way. If the goal is to increase license sales or sales of fishing gear then that would of course make sense.

Maybe I'm selfish but I like looking up and down stream and seeing risers and seeing no one.
 
I'm not necessarily buying the idea that streams across the board are generally crowded, opening day's first two hours aside on stocked waters. But even on opening day there have been angler counts on a few Northcentral and Northeastern stocked streams with no anglers at 8 AM. As for general crowding, in 1991 there were 1.1 million licensed anglers in Pa and as of the most recent figure that I have seen for 2019 sales, the number is hundreds of thousands less than that. My experiences with crowding now are not much different than they were then; they're weren't any crowds other than the first week and then the first two days of the early inseason stockings other than on a small minority of very popular waters.
 
maxima12 wrote:
As of 2017, 49 million people fish in the usa. Ages 6 to 12 very higher than 13 to 17. If a child has not fished by age 12, it is unlikely he or she will fish later in life! Fact! That is why I preach youth!

Hispanic fishing on the rise. Women fishing is targeted by all the major companies like Orvis and Patagonia. One problem though. 37 percent of women are discriminated in the fly fishing world, by you got it men. Perhaps, let me share. 1 women guide to 90 male guides!

You want wild trout and impose catch and release projects all through the state, your reach is just little bitty, until you understand the full impact of fishing. Fly fishermen on the rise at about 14 percent of total fisherman. With that being your 24 or older and of a higher money value than the rest. And don't forget your presence decreases dramatically at the age of 44. I know you want to rant and rage over Maxima 12 claim! Blow your horn, a little plastic noisemaker. Your not me and most likely few will follow.

Well you got your agenda and I have mine. I prefer a youth and women involvement, with stocking fish. The young one's said> fishing with friends and family# 1 and catching fish #2
Naturally, I go with youth and speed cause I am tired of having to stop for all the old to catch up.

If you don't get it, shame on you!
Maxima12
Click to expand...

Maxie, your heart is in the right place, but I'm afraid you really have lost touch with the youth of today. The days of Huck Finn are over.

I managed a fly shop for quite a while and the shop ran many programs to teach fly tying and fly-fishing to kids as well as women. We partnered with middle schools as well as high schools and scout troops to reach as many kids as possible.

At each class I asked who fishes and who does not. Many kids did not raise their hands about ever fishing before, so I asked why so many of you young people don't fish. The answer I got most is the kids were turned off by stocking and killing fish. They had more an interest in C&R as well as stream conservation, saving the environment and preserving it's beauty.

These kids are on the right track, I would say. The future is bright! It made me feel good that we will pass off things to a generation that seems to be more enlightened than our generation.
 
Afishanado, I am sure you are a very intelligent person with a heart of gold. Your vision on fishing and fly fishing is a true love of yours. I respect all that you do and try to do. With that said:


Stocking and killing of fish, the reason not to fish. I may be blinded in my thinking, somewhere, somehow, maybe I can just get one more to fish. Think of me as Schindler's Fish! Just one more, if I could just get one more!


Tackle industry data does not follow your song. Fishing industry data, sportsman data, etc.


Most persons that are not fishing before the age of 12, will most likely will not pursue fishing later in life. Some will, as it will be a lower, very lower percentage.

Think of fishing as the Up, Down, mountain! fishing up till 12, fishing down from 13 to 24, fishing up from 25 to 44, fishing down 45+. Yes, some exceptions to the rule but the overall # are data correct.

Speaking of stocking and killing fish a reason not to fish, would come from an age group 16 to 24 with a limited fishing experience. One's with an experience, indicate that "No Hassles", Fitness development", "Outdoor experience" and nature are it. Catching fish is important but not top on list as it is under the age of 12.

Hope your getting some of this. I would like you to take a look also at this point. Fishing clubs such as T. U. I am sure you have been there. How many 16 to 24 attend. I would think more old by 3 times than young by 3.

I am by no means telling you your wrong. Maybe I am wrong and should stop my effort. Go fishing, enjoy my time and let it go! I am perfectly happy doing my fly fishing, fly tying etc.

I too have been involved in fly fishing business over 30 years under John Fave Outdoors, John Fave Sports, J & M Flyfishing, Evolution Leader Company and a couple more. I have talked to thousands of people, taught fly tying but never in my life heard that reason for not fishing. I was approached by a gentleman a couple days ago, who insisted of writing letters to colleges to try to get me appointed as a fly tying instructor, professor. My reply "too Old".

So by bending your ear a little, with a soft whisper, maybe a day comes, when you shout, Maxima12 you had a point.

Maxima12
 
"The answer I got most is the kids were turned off by stocking and killing fish. They had more an interest in C&R as well as stream conservation, saving the environment and preserving it's beauty."

Huh, what? Most kids who do not fish have not a clue what stocking and catch and release is. I would venture a guess it's that organized acitivities have become a full time job for kids coupled with higher education expectations, cell phones, video games and parents with not enough time to squeeze fishing into already hectic schedules. I know when my kids were young my fishing was cut down to a handful of 1/2 day outings a year. I was simply to busy with work, church, never ending sports and family stuff to go fishing.
 
Poopdeck, I feel sorry for you. Wish you had more time

I was lucky, made time

Maxima12
 
maxima12 wrote:
Afishanado, I am sure you are a very intelligent person with a heart of gold. Your vision on fishing and fly fishing is a true love of yours. I respect all that you do and try to do. With that said:


Stocking and killing of fish, the reason not to fish. I may be blinded in my thinking, somewhere, somehow, maybe I can just get one more to fish. Think of me as Schindler's Fish! Just one more, if I could just get one more!


Tackle industry data does not follow your song. Fishing industry data, sportsman data, etc.


Most persons that are not fishing before the age of 12, will most likely will not pursue fishing later in life. Some will, as it will be a lower, very lower percentage.

Think of fishing as the Up, Down, mountain! fishing up till 12, fishing down from 13 to 24, fishing up from 25 to 44, fishing down 45+. Yes, some exceptions to the rule but the overall # are data correct.

Speaking of stocking and killing fish a reason not to fish, would come from an age group 16 to 24 with a limited fishing experience. One's with an experience, indicate that "No Hassles", Fitness development", "Outdoor experience" and nature are it. Catching fish is important but not top on list as it is under the age of 12.

Hope your getting some of this. I would like you to take a look also at this point. Fishing clubs such as T. U. I am sure you have been there. How many 16 to 24 attend. I would think more old by 3 times than young by 3.

I am by no means telling you your wrong. Maybe I am wrong and should stop my effort. Go fishing, enjoy my time and let it go! I am perfectly happy doing my fly fishing, fly tying etc.

I too have been involved in fly fishing business over 30 years under John Fave Outdoors, John Fave Sports, J & M Flyfishing, Evolution Leader Company and a couple more. I have talked to thousands of people, taught fly tying but never in my life heard that reason for not fishing. I was approached by a gentleman a couple days ago, who insisted of writing letters to colleges to try to get me appointed as a fly tying instructor, professor. My reply "too Old".

So by bending your ear a little, with a soft whisper, maybe a day comes, when you shout, Maxima12 you had a point.

Maxima12
Click to expand...

Link to source: https://outdoorindustry.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2018-Special-Report-on-Fishing_FINAL.pdf


From Page 37 Special Report on Fishing Outdoor Foundation
(Report used by the fishing industry)

Youth Motivations for fishing > ages 6-12 / ages 13-17

Be with family and friends 71.6% 63.5%
Get exercise 52.3% 55.3%
Experience excitement and adventure 47.9% 39.4%
Be with people who enjoy the same things I do 44.6% 49.4%
Develop my skills and abilities 36.3% 33.0%
Because it is cool 35.6% 31.5%
Enjoy the sounds and smells of nature 32.0% 40.6%
Be close to nature 30.5% 43.0%
Keep physically fit 27.7% 41.8%
Observe scenic beauty 26.0% 33.6%
Gain a sense of accomplishment 21.1% 22.9%
Gain a sense of self-confidence 20.8% 24.3%
Be with people who share my values 19.3% 25.9%
Get away from the usual demands 17.4% 30.9%
Talk to new and varied people 11.7% 12.5%
Experience solitude 7.2% 14.2%
Other 6.6% 2.8%

 


"At each class I asked who fishes and who does not. Many kids did not raise their hands about ever fishing before, so I asked why so many of you young people don't fish. The answer I got most is the kids were turned off by stocking and killing fish. They had more an interest in C&R as well as stream conservation, saving the environment and preserving it's beauty.

These kids are on the right track, I would say. The future is bright! It made me feel good that we will pass off things to a generation that seems to be more enlightened than our generation.[/quote]"


I find it a bit hard to believe that kids who never fished are turned off by killing fish. Perhaps I am not understanding what you wrote?
If that is true I would not call that being on the right track. Killing fish and other things for sport and food is not the opposite of preserving our planet but is an important part of many peoples development and appreciation our role in nature.

Agree that the days of Huck Finn are over and that is sad and due mostly to video games and endless organized activities. My youth of almost every kid roaming and playing outdoors and fishing (and eating fish) and being so excited to turn 12 so we could hunt the ABUNDANT small game are a thing of the past.

I will go out on a limb and also say this. I mean no offense here: Most people I know who grew up fishing worms and bait have a better grasp of how to fly fish and develop way faster than those who have only ever flyfished. And those who have spent time outdoors roaming and hunting and fishing and catching all sorts of critters have a way more evolved awareness and observe what is around them than those who learned from a class or video.
 
Very good. Thank you. It has come time to say good bye! I feel my mission has come full circle. I would have nothing more to offer new. Just a repeat of past. Some understand, some don't. Sometimes I wonder if I understand! It is a complicated world today and it is not getting easier. I hope some will teach and some will learn. Sometimes teaching is a learning lesson too!

I have had a great time and hope I caused no harm. Seems like a lot followed to view what I was going to say next.

Well, here it is --- God bless you all and great fishing to each and everyone. Never met nicer people than all of you. Have a place on Penns Creek to go. Think I will spend a month or 2 there. P.S. You might see me. Grey beanie with fishing license and a orange sportsman button. If I am fighting a rattlesnake, stay back. Someone is going to get bit!

Till we meet again!
 
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