The Golden Lightning Palomino Trout!!!

[Bamboozle]

I remember all too well, a particular Palomino that inhabited a favorite hole of mine in a Class A section REALLY far away from the stocked sections on the same creek.

Did some angler dump it there, did it swim there, do private clubs have access to Palominos? (Escapees from a private club may explain things if they have Palominos).

Bottom line, I tried like hell to catch that fish but all I caught out of that hole were stupid wild Brown Trout. ;-)

 

[Tigereye]

Aaah huh. See post #15. Classic example bamboozle, I see it all the time.

 

[coyoterahn]

Couldn’t agree more with the above post from Afish.

 

[krayfish2]

salmonoid wrote:
They aren't sterile; just color variations of regular old rainbows..

I stand corrected. My understanding was that all rainbow or having to do with rainbows were triploid. After some additional reading, I see they are not. At any rate, the mutants are not very likely to live long enough to be an issue.

Wasn't there talk of stocking only triploid bows at some point?

 

[wbranch]

Solitarolupo wrote;

I’ve caughten 100s and 100s of brown or rainbow trout and some days it’s not even fun taking them off the hook you catch so many.

In one day? Not being facetious but I would love to go fishing with you to experience a day half as good as those 100+ trout days.

 

[tomgamber]

krayfish2 wrote:

salmonoid wrote:
They aren't sterile; just color variations of regular old rainbows..

I stand corrected. My understanding was that all rainbow or having to do with rainbows were triploid. After some additional reading, I see they are not. At any rate, the mutants are not very likely to live long enough to be an issue.

Wasn't there talk of stocking only triploid bows at some point?

I remember them using triploid rainbows, purchased from N.C., to supplement stockings a few years ago for one reason or another. These rainbows (if i'm not confusing more than one discussion) were raised in hatcheries with moving water. They put up one heck if a fight for stockies.
I know its been a topic on this board in the past. Could search it.

Just wondering...how do get wild rainbows and browns if stocked trout don't reproduce? For the purpose of this discussion; the rainbows but I've heard others claim that stocked trout never reproduce.

Another question: I was also under the false assumption that Golden RBT were sterile. If they did reproduce would they produce regular or golden rainbows? Or either?

 

[troutbert]

tomgamber wrote:

Just wondering...how do get wild rainbows and browns if stocked trout don't reproduce?

Suppose all brown trout stocking in the USA ended in 1920, a century ago.

Do you think there would be wild browns in our streams?

 

[GeneBeam]

I was also was wondering about if the Golden RBT could reproduce in the wild, after looking online and finding the following, I’m thinking that it is possible to have a wild reproduced Golden RBT if the conditions were right.

Here is some information I found online:
https://nativefishcoalition.org/blog/2019/4/27/the-origins-of-the-golden-rainbow-trout-beautiful-only-to-the-ecologically-illiterate-nbsp

https://www.fishandboat.com/Fish/PennsylvaniaFishes/GalleryPennsylvaniaFishes/Pages/TroutsandSalmons.aspx

https://wvdnr.wordpress.com/2017/09/29/west-virginia-gold-rush-a-history-of-the-golden-rainbow-trout/

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Suppose all brown trout stocking in the USA ended in 1920, a century ago.

Do you think there would be wild browns in our streams?

Absolutely but not as prolific as today.
Brown trout came to PA in 1886.
In 1930, 150 loch levens were stocked in Cedar Run Cumberland County. Those fish became legendary and i believe also were potamodromous., like Letort Brown trout and likey spread genes and populations all over. However your 1920 cut off would eliminate these fish and others.

My best guess, the best populations of brown trout in PA would be reduced by half.

 

[Solitariolupo]

wbranch wrote:
Solitarolupo wrote;

I’ve caughten 100s and 100s of brown or rainbow trout and some days it’s not even fun taking them off the hook you catch so many.

In one day? Not being facetious but I would love to go fishing with you to experience a day half as good as those 100+ trout days.

I used to run in a three pack back in the day. My father, bro, and myself some days between the three of us we could easily get 100 plus opening days. My best was around 52give or take in one day and if I would have stayed probably would have caught more. Not bragging about it at all just answering your question. As for the first post 100s and 100s I meant threw my lifetime. It takes a lot of walking and no one around. We fished a creek in the mountains that did not have a lot of people fished it. Honestly I think those 100 plus days would be over as I don’t think they stock as many nowadays.
As far as fishing with me I don’t know if I’m up to the challenge anymore as I’m getting older lol but if you want I’ll be more than happy to put you in the holes and catch as many as you want. Those where some good fishing days.

 

[silverfox]

troutbert wrote:

tomgamber wrote:

Just wondering...how do get wild rainbows and browns if stocked trout don't reproduce?

Suppose all brown trout stocking in the USA ended in 1920, a century ago.

Do you think there would be wild browns in our streams?

This is something I don't think a lot of people understand. Most of the wild browns are not some ancient strain of rare brown trout that magically spread themselves all over the commonwealth from a handful of ancestors. I'd bet the vast majority are only a generation or 2 removed from a stocked fish.

I'm sure there is some of the original loch leven or german genetics in some of the fish, but I seriously doubt the vast majority are anything other than the result of constantly stocking them.

 

[Bamboozle]

Not to mention wild Rainbow trout which are out there in several streams in PA that were stocked a long time ago.

 

[Bruno]

I have to admit I have never caught one. My kid has has caught several on dry flies. I think they know when you are not a kid and pass you by.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

This is something I don't think a lot of people understand. Most of the wild browns are not some ancient strain of rare brown trout that magically spread themselves all over the commonwealth from a handful of ancestors. I'd bet the vast majority are only a generation or 2 removed from a stocked fish.

I'm sure there is some of the original loch leven or german genetics in some of the fish, but I seriously doubt the vast majority are anything other than the result of constantly stocking them.

Cant be.
I can think of quite a few streams even in trout barren Lancaster County that have thriving wild brown trout populations. Those streams were removed either in 1980 during operation future or sometime there after, much more than just a few generations away from stocked genetics.


No one is claiming these populations only came from a few stockings, no one is claiming magic either.
Brown trout move much more than you realize.

 

[silverfox]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:

This is something I don't think a lot of people understand. Most of the wild browns are not some ancient strain of rare brown trout that magically spread themselves all over the commonwealth from a handful of ancestors. I'd bet the vast majority are only a generation or 2 removed from a stocked fish.

I'm sure there is some of the original loch leven or german genetics in some of the fish, but I seriously doubt the vast majority are anything other than the result of constantly stocking them.

Cant be.
I can think of quite a few streams even in trout barren Lancaster County that have thriving wild brown trout populations. Those streams were removed either in 1980 during operation future or sometime there after, much more than just a few generations away from stocked genetics.


No one is claiming these populations only came from a few stockings, no one is claiming magic either.
Brown trout move much more than you realize.

Absolutely agree there are some cases where there are populations that are older. That's why I said "most" in my post.

Trust me, I know exactly how far browns travel. That's something I'm always preaching. I'm not so sure that nobody believes they aren't mostly from original stocks. Nobody said it in this post, but I've talked with people who believe that all wild browns in PA are descendants of the original stockings.

Regardless of generation, they're all from stockings one way or another.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

In some cases I think we do see reproduction from recently stocked brown trout. However, based upon observations such as spot patterns I can't say I have caught any noticeable amount of stream bred trout that have the common stocked brown spot patterns. A genetic study would be needed to further analysis. I am not aware of any genetic studies on browns in PA, however a recent psu study in the loyalsock creek drainage found very little evidence of genetic introgression of stocked trout into the native Brook trout Gene pool.

 

[troutbert]

Trout stocking was ended in Yellowstone Park in 1955.

There are still many wild brown trout, rainbows, and brook trout in the park. All of these are non-native, introduced fish in those waters.

And when was the last time that English sparrows and starlings were "stocked?" These are also introduced, non-native species. I don't know when "stocking" ended, but I'd guess sometime before 1900. Yet there are still plenty around.

And how about carp? Do you think their populations require continuing stocking? Are all the carp only one or two generations separated from stocked carp?

 

[larkmark]

I have never seen a palomino eat anything off the top. Years ago I caught some very big ones from lower Penns. Well over twenty and fat and colored up. They hold over as well as any other stocked fish given the right cover etc.

 

[tomgamber]

troutbert wrote:
Trout stocking was ended in Yellowstone Park in 1955.

There are still many wild brown trout, rainbows, and brook trout in the park. All of these are non-native, introduced fish in those waters.

And when was the last time that English sparrows and starlings were "stocked?" These are also introduced, non-native species. I don't know when "stocking" ended, but I'd guess sometime before 1900. Yet there are still plenty around.

And how about carp? Do you think their populations require continuing stocking? Are all the carp only one or two generations separated from stocked carp?

Do you always answer a question with a question?

 

[krayfish2]

Not to jump topic...but.... Which PA streams do you think hold browns with the oldest lineage?

I'd think the Letort and Broadhead would be some of the older gene pools