Testing your knots

[ROVERT]

I highly suggest learning the improved clinch knot. I started using it 3 or 4 years ago now and it just cinches down SO MUCH BETTER. Its only one more quickstep check it out, you will like.

I believe the improved clinch has been proven to be weaker than the clinch knot by both Orvis and Rio.

 

[riverwhy]

I have found that the improved clinch knot created a hinging effect that eventually weakened the knot with a lot of false casting. Therefore I use the improved clinch for streamers and nymphs and the regular for dry flies.

 

[5footfenwick]

When that piece of tippet I just added is way too long, (almost always) I find the Palomar knot helps a lot. (when I’m not fishing with flies with small hook eyes of course)

Not only is it strong, like really really really strong, but it’s the best knot I know for easy fly tie-in location and easily selecting extra excess line to cut off.

Plus it the fastest, easiest knot to tie. Like a couple seconds fast.

~ 5footfenwick

 

[jifigz]

When that piece of tippet I just added is way too long, (almost always) I find the Palomar knot helps a lot. (when I’m not fishing with flies with small hook eyes of course)

Not only is it strong, like really really really strong, but it’s the best knot I know for easy fly tie-in location and easily selecting extra excess line to cut off.

Plus it the fastest, easiest knot to tie. Like a couple seconds fast.

~ 5footfenwick

Palomar knot is a good one. I don't use it fly fishing for some reason though.

 

[KeviR]

If you want stronger knots, practice tying them (at home) and testing the result until you get a consistent breaking strength. Testing a knot streamside by hand (or stick) is quite limited because you are somewhat guessing how much tension your tippet can handle. What percentage of tippet breaking strength are you trying to stress the knot? 25%? 75%? If you are good at tying knots, you should be able to consistently get a breaking strength of >90% of the tippet strength. Sure, you tug on them after you tie them, but the actual breaking strength is mainly assured by technique, not testing. (I think quality control folks have a similar observation - you can't build crap and get good quality by testing the result. You get high quality stuff by using a high quality build process. Quality control is just there to make sure you didn't break the process unexpectedly.)

 

[5footfenwick]

Palomar knot is a good one. I don't use it fly fishing for some reason though.

I mostly like it as my first knot of the day while my tippet is long. Or first retie after adding a new piece of tippet as a time saver.

I’ll also add it’s the quickest way I know of to make a simple drop shot rig.
Leave the tag end really long and add a split shot a little bit up from the end of the tag line. Wrap the slip shot fully once before biting closed ( I mean Hemostat pinched) and then tie a few overhand knots in the very end of the line below the shot. This way if the shot or two slides, it hits a knot and stops.

I’ll admit it certainly has its weaknesses in the world of fly fishing. Small hook eyes on tiny dry flies are out of the question and it eats up leader quick. But man is it strong. Not quite as strong as a non slip mono loop. And not quite as much action as a non slip mono loop. But darn close for about 1/10th the tie time invested. Maybe I’m fast at a palomar and slow at a non slip mono loop though 🙂

~5footfenwick

 

[Bamboozle]

When that piece of tippet I just added is way too long, (almost always) I find the Palomar knot helps a lot. (when I’m not fishing with flies with small hook eyes of course)

Not only is it strong, like really really really strong, but it’s the best knot I know for easy fly tie-in location and easily selecting extra excess line to cut off.

Plus it the fastest, easiest knot to tie. Like a couple seconds fast.

~ 5footfenwick

I'm a big fan of the Palomar and it's been my go-to knot for lures since I learned it as a kid from an issue of Field & Stream.

In regards to "that piece of tippet I just added is way too long." Are you using surgeon's knots and pulling tippet off the spool, cutting it off and then adding it to your leader?

If so, try making a bigger loop and passing the spool through the loop before cutting. Of course if you are using a tippet spool holder that can be difficult... 😉

If you are using blood knots, try pulling the tippet from the spool, tying your blood knot, then cutting it from the spool. This you can do easily even if you use a tippet spool holder.

Besides the straightness of the knot, other reasons I prefer blood knots over surgeons knots for joining sections of leaders is there is WAY less wasted material (if you leave the material on the spool before cutting) and I can keep my spools in a holder while I add tippet.

The tippet spool holder I use (which I made) holds six spools and where stored allows me to put tension on the tippet I'm adding which makes tying blood knots a LOT easier.

In regards to comments on the strength of clinch knots...

If you shun clinch knots but use blood knots, keep in mind a blood knot is just two clinch knots back to back...

 

[5footfenwick]

I'm a big fan of the Palomar and it's been my go-to knot for lures since I learned it as a kid from an issue of Field & Stream.

In regards to "that piece of tippet I just added is way too long." Are you using surgeon's knots and pulling tippet off the spool, cutting it off and then adding it to your leader?

If so, try making a bigger loop and passing the spool through the loop before cutting. Of course if you are using a tippet spool holder that can be difficult... 😉

If you are using blood knots, try pulling the tippet from the spool, tying your blood knot, then cutting it from the spool. This you can do easily even if you use a tippet spool holder.

Besides the straightness of the knot, other reasons I prefer blood knots over surgeons knots for joining sections of leaders is there is WAY less wasted material (if you leave the material on the spool before cutting) and I can keep my spools in a holder while I add tippet.

The tippet spool holder I use (which I made) holds six spools and where stored allows me to put tension on the tippet I'm adding which makes tying blood knots a LOT easier.

In regards to comments on the strength of clinch knots...

If you shun clinch knots but use blood knots, keep in mind a blood knot is just two clinch knots back to back...

I’ll use both. Depends on my mood. Yeah to be honest I have a bad habit of just cutting off a big old piece of tippet and then figuring it out.
~5footfenwick

 

[Bamboozle]

I’ll use both. Depends on my mood. Yeah to be honest I have a bad habit of just cutting off a big old piece of tippet and then figuring it out.
~5footfenwick

I only use blood knots because I been tying them since Izaak Walton taught me how, for years I used to tie ALL of my own knotted leaders and I can tie them with 1/4" tag if necessary.

Like I mentioned earlier, having my leader and the material I'm adding taut, makes tying the knot a WHOLE lot easier.

The first thing I do when I want to add tippet is to get out my leader dispenser, pull off a few inches of material and put the dispenser back in a pocket. Then I allow the loop of fly line between my reel and stripper to drag in the current. As it pulls that puts tension on the leader.

Keeping the leader dispenser in my pocket keeps tension in the tippet material and in a few seconds the blood knot is tied. After I tie the blood knot, I'll pull the amount of tippet I want from the dispenser, then snip it and the tags off with my nippers.

It's funny, but for an incredibly long time I've used a homemade tippet dispenser that resided in either a vest pocket or a pouch compartment on my right side. As a result, I can tie blood knots easier and faster with the leader end in my left hand and the tippet spool end in my right.

 

[shortrod]

I highly suggest learning the improved clinch knot. I started using it 3 or 4 years ago now and it just cinches down SO MUCH BETTER. Its only one more quickstep check it out, you will like.

I also have to disagree. The improved have been proven to be no improvement when it comes to knot strength and for me, it makes it much more likely that the knot will not seat correctly and will slip.

 

[RichFishbelt]

I test my knots after tying almost always. My testing methods probably wouldn’t be accepted by the scientific community but I don’t carry that much equipment with me. A moderate strong steady pull against the knot should suffice.
I recently hooked a fallen tree on the opposite side of the stream by casting my streamer a little too far. The water was too deep to cross without getting wet, so I decided to just break the tippet and sacrifice the fly. While pointing the rod tip straight at the snag. I gave a steady pull gradually leaning into the pull. I braced myself for the inevitable conehead streamer shooting back to hit me in the head. Luckily, that didn’t happen. The streamer came free from the branch and whizzed by me. To my surprise, the hook had nearly straightened at the bend. The knot had not failed. The 3X tippet didn’t break.
The knot was a non-slip loop knot but it wasn’t the type of knot or the testing of the knot that allowed me to apply so much pressure that the hook gave out. Perhaps, it’s the execution of tying the knot and the strength of modern tippet materials. I try to remember to look at my knots, look for signs of leader fatigue, or gaps between the turns in the knots. Many knots including the Davy, perfection loop, and 16 - 20 show signs or pop confirming the knot is tied properly.

 

[bringthepain]

The improved clinch works very well for me. Folks that have issues might be giving it too many turns. A quick google search seemed to be up in the air in terms of strength between it and the original. I didnt look any further than that. Its certainly superior in the way it draws tight and stacks the wraps neatly as well as presents the tag at a 90 degree angle. To each their own!