Sucker spawn

Do the purists refer to Sucker Spawn patterns as a "junk fly"??

Yup. There are degrees of purism. Anything that is not a traditional catskill style dry fly of at least size 18 made to be an exact match to something in the mayfly family and fished only during a hatch is referred to as a junk fly by some, lol.

Also thought i once heard Suckers referred to as Fresh Water Bonefish.
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Counter culture exists in fly fishing too.
 
One angle (so to speak) on fishing sucker spawn flies (SS) is the effectiveness they have in catching wild brown trout (BT) rather than wild rainbows (RT) or wild brook trout (ST).

While SS and other junk flies are deadly on stocked RTs almost all the wild trout I get on SS are BT. Part of this is that I usually use SS in the early spring, say roughly early March to late April. This coincides with the actual sucker spawn in PA and I'm convinced that wild BTs are keying on the SS hatch, especially by April.

There simply aren't many wild RTs anywhere in PA and most of these populations are in small spring creeks. Wild RTs just aren't common in our larger rivers in PA (Delaware is an exception). While wild STs are widespread and numerous, they too aren't common in the larger waters. This leaves wild BT as both widespread and found in larger streams.

I say this because the phenomenon of suckers spawning is more common on larger streams both freestone and especially limestone influenced, particularly the lower reaches associated with confluence with bigger WW rivers. Think of the many tribs of the Juniata River system that have wild BTs. Suckers stage in the river and move up into these tribs to spawn and eventually up into sections with wild BTs. The trout then key on this "hatch."

I think this is why I associate fishing with SS with catching wild BTs and not with catching wild STs or RTs.

Just thinking in print here...
 
Oh, I agree, early spring while suckers are spawning, they work on wild browns. I've even located pods of spawning suckers on gravel and observed the browns milling around behind them. Then caught them with "match the egg hatch" tactics. But the rest of the year, I've tried it, and nada.

But they do work on wild bows too. Year round, not just when suckers are spawning. I had a heck of a day once on Falling Springs, in late July. Figuring I'd fool around after the tricos fell and it was like cheating. Supposedly parsnickerty wild fish going nuts at mid day in mid summer for some salmon colored yarn, lol, was quite a contrast to the tiny fly game I was doing an hr earlier. And I don't fish FSB much. A few other wild bow streams too, and when what you should use isn't obvious, its a confidence fly for me when bows are present. I say fly, but I use glo bugs and sucker spawn more or less interchangably. Both easy to tie but glo bugs are quicker. I think sucker spawn is easier to incorporate weight though, and these patterns tend to need some weight to get em down.

Plus there's the whole lake run scene where egg patterns in general are kind of the de facto standard. To the point that catching them on a nymph or streamer is the "try something they haven't seen" way to go.

I've tried them on brookie streams too, year round. They work. Not any better, and perhaps not as well, as almost anything else though. Put anything in front of those fish withkut spooking them first and they'll take.
 
Dave, I will disagree with your opinion about the fight of a white sucker. Do I dare say......they often fight harder than the trout and, in my opinion, that are harder to catch.. Why are suckers not a more highly regarded gamefish?
 
@Pcray...Now I know you are my brother from another mother. I too, have used Flame Glo-Bugs on FSB in the Summer when nothing else would work, and had incredible success on the 'bows there. It was one of those things where I emptied out my box trying to find something that worked. The first time I went the glo-bug route, it was cloudy and drizzling on the lower end of the spec reg area. Until I put the glo-bug on, you'd swear that the creek was devoid of fish. After that day, I always made sure to have a couple on hand in case I needed the nuclear option on FSB. They also work surprisingly well year round on BSC too.
 
jifigz wrote:
Dave, I will disagree with your opinion about the fight of a white sucker. Do I dare say......they often fight harder than the trout and, in my opinion, that are harder to catch.. Why are suckers not a more highly regarded gamefish?

Jfigz, I agree! One of my more memorable white sucker catches was on Little Pine. I was anticipating a hatch right at dark and was fishing at the head of a large pool and was picking trout off with an emerger. As darkness settled in a large spinner fall started to take place at the tailout of the pool. I struggled to switch flies as darkness settled in and hurried to wade to the bottom of the pool. The insect and surface activity had slowed, but first cast brought up good sized nose form and set the hook. I thought for sure I had a sizable brown on, after a good fight I brought a largish 16-18in suckered to hand. At the time I was disappointed, but it is a good memory know as I have learned to appreciate them more.
 
I have had good luck with white sucker spawn on stocked brookies. I think they are a fairly good imitation of wonderbread.
 
jifigz wrote:
Dave, I will disagree with your opinion about the fight of a white sucker. Do I dare say......they often fight harder than the trout and, in my opinion, that are harder to catch.. Why are suckers not a more highly regarded gamefish?

Yuh know what I always say about suckers.... It takes one to catch one. :cool:
 
Dave_W wrote:
jifigz wrote:
Dave, I will disagree with your opinion about the fight of a white sucker. Do I dare say......they often fight harder than the trout and, in my opinion, that are harder to catch.. Why are suckers not a more highly regarded gamefish?

Yuh know what I always say about suckers.... It takes one to catch one. :cool:

Well, you definitely got me there. Seriously though, so many people where I am from are taught to throw suckers on the banks when they catch them trout fishing. I hope this mentality changes around here.
 
In the previous 2 generations, In the area I live, folks couldn't wait for spring sucker but it was to can or eat them and not to catch trout. I'm not sure if it was the PA dutch or some of the Eastern and Southern European groups that migrated in. I'm told they were good. Apparently if you bake them or can them in some sort of pickling brine the small bones dis-appear. Young Carp was also sought after at this time.
Has anyone any memory of this?
 
Seriously though, so many people where I am from are taught to throw suckers on the banks when they catch them trout fishing. I hope this mentality changes around here.

Yeah, I hope it changes too... and I think it has.

I haven't seen anyone throwing "chubs" or suckers or other "trash fish" on the bank in years (nor anyone shooting water snakes, but this is a topic for a different time). When I was a kid fishing in the late 70s-early 80s these were still pretty common.
 
Baron wrote:
In the previous 2 generations, In the area I live, folks couldn't wait for spring sucker but it was to can or eat them and not to catch trout. I'm not sure if it was the PA dutch or some of the Eastern and Southern European groups that migrated in. I'm told they were good. Apparently if you bake them or can them in some sort of pickling brine the small bones dis-appear. Young Carp was also sought after at this time.
Has anyone any memory of this?

Yes, although it's from reading and talking to old timers rather than personal experience.

The popularity of sucker fishing dropped off dramatically in the post war years. Back in the day, however, sucker fishing was probably as big as trout fishing (and bigger in the minds of many PA anglers, something unthinkable today). Local creeks were packed with fishermen in the early spring back then and - you're right - they were fishing for these fish for food. The Fish Commission even stocked suckers back then to keep the population up.

I can't remember the last time I saw someone deliberately targeting suckers in PA, of even if I've ever seen this. Nowadays its catfish.
 
I fished for suckers as a kid. They were so full of bones that no one ate them. They were about the only thing of any size that were in the cricks near where I grew up. I read an article about using waxed sewing thread to catch them sort of an ultra light set up. Yes, it was a common practice to toss them on the bank if they were caught in a trout stream along with carp. I saw one of those old carp ponds near Neshannock Creek on a farm . It was next to a spring house and had big flat stones lining the bottom and sides. As I recall there was a small creek that ran near the farm an into Neshannok Creek. it had nice brook trout in it. That was in the 50's. GG
 
My brother targets suckers. By target, I mean go out deliberately to catch them. Though in western PA he's mostly chasing redhorses,not white suckers.

Me? I have targeted them. But its mostly in a , hey, the trout/bass fishing kinda sucks today, I'm gonna catch me some of these instead sort of way.

And regarding the fight of a sucker. It's good for a bout 10 seconds. As soon as I hook em its holy crap I got a monster, and, they give you an impressive first run. But then they just give up. That is, when you hook em in the mouth.

I have caught my share on dry flies!
 
Way back when I was a youngster one of my favorite baits was catching crabs and pulling their tail off. I'd peel the shell off the tail and put the white meat on a hook. Now thinking about it sucker spawn would look like the crab meat. Caught a lot of Trout that way.
 
yeah, dry flies. I've had a number of times during a spinner fall where you'd see risers in true frog water. Think, hmm, strange place for trout, shrug, and go ahead and give em a shot. Invariably you miss a few, the hookup rate isn't great like that. When you finally hook one you realize you just spent most of the spinner fall on a pod of suckers.
 
pcray1231 wrote:
yeah, dry flies. I've had a number of times during a spinner fall where you'd see risers in true frog water. Think, hmm, strange place for trout, shrug, and go ahead and give em a shot. Invariably you miss a few, the hookup rate isn't great like that. When you finally hook one you realize you just spent most of the spinner fall on a pod of suckers.

Are you sure they weren't fallfish?

I've caught many fallfish on dry flies and their rise form looks very similar to those of trout.

But I've never caught a sucker on a dry fly and have never seen anyone do that.

 
I have caught them in the Tully pretty frequently on SanJuan Worms. Prior to being a DH Area from Rebers Bridge to the junction of Tully and Broadcasting Rds, the original lower limit. The stretch was popular with sucker fishermen, especially at the mouth of Cacoosing Ck. When we set up the DH Area we actually got some grief from an outdoor writer about taking the sucker fishery away. I later saw an angler at the point just below the BM Dam discharge catching so many suckers one afternoon that he could not keep two rods in the water.

Prior to that when I lived in Pleasant Gap there was a popular sucker fishery in late winter a short distance downstream from Sayers Dam on Bald Eagle Ck. Likewise, there was a popular sucker fishery below the dam on Maiden Ck in Lenhartsville and a fishery on the W Br Brandywine (or was it the EBr?). When I was a kid we used to winter fish for suckers in Manatawny Ck and Ltl Manatawny Ck, both near Oley. There may still be a fishery on the Lehigh upstream from Bethlehem.

They are possible to clean with little difficulty and I have to say that their meat is flaky, mild, and sweet. They are good eating. Some guys at the former Big Spring Hatchery once told me that fish cakes made from suckers were quite good. I also made chowder.
 
pcray1231 wrote:
yeah, dry flies. I've had a number of times during a spinner fall where you'd see risers in true frog water. Think, hmm, strange place for trout, shrug, and go ahead and give em a shot. Invariably you miss a few, the hookup rate isn't great like that. When you finally hook one you realize you just spent most of the spinner fall on a pod of suckers.

Wow, that's strange.
I've never caught a sucker on a dry fly but I get a fair number of them in early spring when nymphing for trout. They seem to like small nymphs right on the bottom.

These are white suckers I'm talking about (which is the topic of this thread). A few years ago I got a hogsucker on a fly and thought this was really unusual and so posted a thread about here on PAFF. I think hogsuckers are more common now on the waters I fish than in the past but they seem much less likely to eat a fly.
 
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