Study just completed: stream restoration likely only beneficial to native brook trout when non-native trout are not present.

[troutbert]

Other states share data much more easily. One request of stocking receipts/ data in Maine got data back to 1917. In Maryland they post the stuff on social media. In PA it’s all hidden from public. And even surveys of streams in the past have resulted in multiple unanswered e-mails and ultimate need for right to know requests. When you know your picking hatcheries/politics over science it doesn’t pay to have your data out there for everyone to look at.

When I asked for info from the PFBC, they always provided it.

Have you actually had to do a "right to know request?"

 

[Fish Sticks]

There are very few wild Browns in Kettle within the stocked trout sections. There seem to be more wild ST in my view, although their density overall is not high either. There are bigger numbers around the mouths of some tribs or in the occasional low flow springs. The best densities, such as they are, appear to be from Ole Bull SP upstream. That would make sense since there are a number of local tribs in that stretch that would be contributing wild trout, almost exclusively Brook Trout

Survey work in which I participated in the 1970’s in the present FFO Area strongly suggested to me that there were more wild browns then than there are now, based on the few that we now catch elsewhere on the stream on flies, night flies, AND minnow rigs. I catch more wild brooks than wild browns, but not many of either. Note that Brooks are more readily angled than Browns, but I don’t think that’s the entire explanation in this case since the wild Browns are so infrequent.

Kettle periodically suffers from low summer flows (last half of July and August) and quite warm temps. This is frequent enough that it prevents good wild trout populations from becoming established within the stocked trout sections. Even if they did for a year or so, they would not last due to the aforementioned periodic, seasonally stressful conditions.

Since invasion plays out over such a long time these sympatric populations we see as stable are really likely just in a transition period towards the invader in many cases that is beyond the temporal scope of our observations with up and down fluctuations typical of wild trout populations that can obscure the general over all direction over a larger time scale.

 

[Fish Sticks]

When I asked for info from the PFBC, they always provided it.

Have you actually had to do a "right to know request?"

4 people I know have had to. It’s usually on more sensitive waters where the stocking is more egregious or a project was billed as a “success” for brook trout. For example they would probably be happy to tell me about the slot limit on penns creek or something more fishing related than conservation related.

 

[Fish Sticks]

When I asked for info from the PFBC, they always provided it.

Have you actually had to do a "right to know request?"

lol if you want to test this out ask for a summary of what the single Johnson act funds are going to

 

[Mike]

That is the only way Within the existing system but I think if we work within the current framework we are going to be many/all brook trout lighter here in Pa in the next century. Those are real concerns. Pa fish and boat also has the responsibility of managing our state amphibian. And Dr. Petokas has written to the commission asking them to stop stocking over hellbender populations in kettle and other potter county creeks multiple times. It’s definitely about more than class A brook trout biomass as far as the cold water ecosystem benefits that could be realized from preventing further invasive species stocking/propagule pressure to further stage of invasion. High brook trout numbers give them biotic resistance to invasive trout. There more we stock the more we weaken that advantage.

The current system is obviously not coherent based on available fisheries science. The information shared with managers at the STAC Chesapeake bay brook trout conservation genetics conference as all centered around decreasing completion with invasive species and enhancing connectivity. To do this effectively we would have to manage at sub watershed/watershed scale. Pa fish and boat does not have the will to do this and the current policies/management system don’t allow for this.

So as your average license holder who wants things to be “resource first” I need a fish commission that adapts policies to science and if the people of the commonwealth don’t get policy change at the commission we need regime

 

[Mike]

Singles may work better than home runs, as in re-proposing the experimental removal of Class B ST sections from the stocking program in which biomass exceeds 25 kg/ha. Then monitor the results with potential programatic changes in mind if results are positive.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Singles may work better than home runs, as in re-proposing the experimental removal of Class B ST sections from the stocking program in which biomass exceeds 25 kg/ha. Then monitor the results with potential programatic changes in mind if results are positive.

that is an interesting proposition. When were they last proposing that?

 

[wildtrout2]

What is the wild brown population like on Kettle? Are streams like Hammersley and Little Kettle picking up more browns? I have never fished Kettle.

I haven't fished the Hammersley yet this season, but last season I caught mostly natives, with only a couple of wild browns. It's still basically a brookie stream, for now. The browns show up more with higher water, like a lot of streams.

 

[silverfox]

I haven't fished the Hammersley yet this season, but last season I caught mostly natives, with only a couple of wild browns. It's still basically a brookie stream, for now. The browns show up more with higher water, like a lot of streams.

A bunch of us fished it last May and I was shocked at how many browns there were and how far up they were.

 

[silverfox]

Singles may work better than home runs, as in re-proposing the experimental removal of Class B ST sections from the stocking program in which biomass exceeds 25 kg/ha. Then monitor the results with potential programatic changes in mind if results are positive.

This is why things take so long to change in this state. Rather than do what we all know needs to be done, and what numerous other states have already done, we'll spend the next 10 years studying the effects of minor changes while ignoring other variables and then call it a failure so we don't have to actually change anything.

 

[wildtrout2]

A bunch of us fished it last May and I was shocked at how many browns there were and how far up they were.

There are browns all the way up the Hammersley. I've been fishing it for almost twenty years now, and that's always been the case. But, every time (about 30) the brookie numbers far exceeded those of the browns.

 

[Fish Sticks]

This is why things take so long to change in this state. Rather than do what we all know needs to be done, and what numerous other states have already done, we'll spend the next 10 years studying the effects of minor changes while ignoring other variables and then call it a failure so we don't have to actually change anything.

Its so funny how expecting PA fish and Boat to incorporate widely accepted fisheries science showing the benefits of managing brook trout at watershed scale and not stocking over them is “home run”. I could see how this could get painted as some lofty pipe dream if we were talking state wide but one subwatershed or watershed where we actually manage for these fish state wide is “home run”? WV has hit 4 “home runs” already and counting and they just started a conservation hatchery to do reintroductions. MD has ~100 miles managed for brook trout correctly and achieved way more than PAFB with less elevation/ground water so pencil them in for a “home run”.

I really want to hear what timothy schaeffer thinks he is going to do with that Recovering americas wild life act money hes been talking about for native brook trout thats going to outweigh what hes doing to them with stocked invasive species. If other states are going to stock responsibly and protect species at risk from the effects stocking like native brook trout, endangered guyandotte crayfish, endangered candy darter in these specialized stocked trout free managment zones, we should send that money to a state that wont sabotage it.

 

[wildtrout2]

There are browns all the way up the Hammersley. I've been fishing it for almost twenty years now, and that's always been the case. But, every time (about 30) the brookie numbers far exceeded those of the browns.

Post correction: Have only been fishing it for 13 years, not 20. Don't know where I got that number. The rest is accurate.