Stocking segment on ABC 27

[Cznymph]

The comment below is me playing the devil's advocate.

What if only brook trout were stocked and they weren't being stocked over wild brook trout? Then we wouldn't be spreading invasives, right?

In theory you’re correct. However we can’t dismiss the fact that multiple PFBC hatcheries have detected invasive New Zealand Mudsnails and continue to stock fish from them, even after admitting that the risk of transmitting these snails to other waterways is not zero.

Then there’s the issue of multiple pathogens that have also been detected in PFBC hatcheries. Pathogens that have caused hatchery closures in other states.

 

[jifigz]

In theory you’re correct. However we can’t dismiss the fact that multiple PFBC hatcheries have detected invasive New Zealand Mudsnails and continue to stock fish from them, even after admitting that the risk of transmitting these snails to other waterways is not zero.

Then there’s the issue of multiple pathogens that have also been detected in PFBC hatcheries. Pathogens that have caused hatchery closures in other states.

Right. You know I know all of that. I don't care if we stopped stocking trout across the state tomorrow. Just deleted the program. In fact, I'd prefer it. Citizens will adapt and fish for other stuff, or they will just quit fishing.

 

[Cznymph]

It’s my impression that the fish from hatcheries where mudsnails have been detected are going only to water bodies where mudsnails have been detected. This explains some of the apparently odd scheduling changes that occur when waters traditionally stocked together are no longer being stocked together.

Your impression is incorrect.

Based on the 2023 stocking schedules, when I compiled this information.

Benner- Allegheny, Beaver, Carbon, Columbia, Huntington, Juniatia, Lackawanna, Lehigh, Luzerne, Mifflin, Monroe, Montour, Northampton, Northumberland, Pike, Susquehanna, and Wayne.


Pleasant Gap- Allegheny, Armstrong, Beaver, Bedford, Blair, Butler, Cambria, Centre, Clearfield, Clinton, Dauphin, Elk, Fayette, Lebanon, Somerset, and Westmoreland.

31 counties in the state get fish from Benner Spring or Pleasant Gap. I don’t think there are 31 NZM infected waterways in the state.

 

[Tigereye]

Right. You know I know all of that. I don't care if we stopped stocking trout across the state tomorrow. Just deleted the program. In fact, I'd prefer it. Citizens will adapt and fish for other stuff, or they will just quit fishing.

Regrettably, that's the problem. If people quit fishing, a large portion of PaFBC funds would dry up and alot of the conservation efforts and enforcement with it. Some of our most prestine and fertile waters would see increased pressure. That inturn would cause increased posting of private property via landowners or new clubs popping up everywhere.

Not a good situation but, I think we are past the point of no return on stocking.

 

[jifigz]

Regrettably, that's the problem. If people quit fishing, a large portion of PaFBC funds would dry up and alot of the conservation efforts and enforcement with it. Some of our most prestine and fertile waters would see increased pressure. That inturn would cause increased posting of private property via landowners or new clubs popping up everywhere.

Not a good situation but, I think we are past the point of no return on stocking.

I don't agree with a lot of this post, but we all have our opinions.

I actually don't think most stockie chasers are going to crowd our most pristine and fertile waters. The people that are likely to do that are the same type that frequent PAFF.

I also don't hate stocking. I just couldn't care less what happens with the program. I can see the positives and negatives of it, and they definitely both exist.

 

[dudemanspecial]

Regrettably, that's the problem. If people quit fishing, a large portion of PaFBC funds would dry up and alot of the conservation efforts and enforcement with it. Some of our most prestine and fertile waters would see increased pressure. That inturn would cause increased posting of private property via landowners or new clubs popping up everywhere.

Not a good situation but, I think we are past the point of no return on stocking.

To add to this, the majority of the area west of the Allegheny Front is devoid of trout and the stocking program here is still very popular. There are a hell of a lot of great trout fisheries that wouldn't exist without the stocking program.

I am 100% against stocking over wild and native trout populations, but am 100% against ending stocking. It just needs to be done right.

 

[Mike]

Your impression is incorrect.

Based on the 2023 stocking schedules, when I compiled this information.

Benner- Allegheny, Beaver, Carbon, Columbia, Huntington, Juniatia, Lackawanna, Lehigh, Luzerne, Mifflin, Monroe, Montour, Northampton, Northumberland, Pike, Susquehanna, and Wayne.


Pleasant Gap- Allegheny, Armstrong, Beaver, Bedford, Blair, Butler, Cambria, Centre, Clearfield, Clinton, Dauphin, Elk, Fayette, Lebanon, Somerset, and Westmoreland.

31 counties in the state get fish from Benner Spring or Pleasant Gap. I don’t think there are 31 NZM infected waterways in the state.

Maybe

 

[Cznymph]

The 2024 schedule possibly yields a different impression when one carefully checks certain counties.

I’m sorry I doubted your knowledge, I went back and compared the 2023 data with the 2024.

Turns out that in 2024, the two PFBC hatcheries that have been announced as having detected mudsnails, delivered fish to FOURTY ONE counties and not the thirty one that they did in 2023.

Going a step further and comparing waterways stocked by both PG and BS, and the imap invasives database, there are plenty of streams across the state which have not detected NZM, but yet are being stocked by a NZM positive hatchery.

Benner- Adams, Allegheny, Carbon, Centre, Clinton, Columbia, Franklin, Huntington, juniatia, Lackawanna, Lehigh, Luzerne, Mifflin, Monroe, Montour, Northampton, Northumberland, Pike, Susquehanna, Wayne,


P.G.- Allegheny, Armstrong, Beaver, Bedford, Berks, Blair, Butler, Cambria, Centre, Chester, Clearfield, Clinton, Cumberland, Elk, Fayette, Forest, Franklin, Lebanon, Mckean, Montgomery, Philadelphia, Somerset, Westmoreland, York

Your thoughts?

 

[Mike]

I’m sorry I doubted your knowledge, I went back and compared the 2023 data with the 2024.

Turns out that in 2024, the two PFBC hatcheries that have been announced as having detected mudsnails, delivered fish to FOURTY ONE counties and not the thirty one that they did in 2023.

Going a step further and comparing waterways stocked by both PG and BS, and the imap invasives database, there are plenty of streams across the state which have not detected NZM, but yet are being stocked by a NZM positive hatchery.

Benner- Adams, Allegheny, Carbon, Centre, Clinton, Columbia, Franklin, Huntington, juniatia, Lackawanna, Lehigh, Luzerne, Mifflin, Monroe, Montour, Northampton, Northumberland, Pike, Susquehanna, Wayne,


P.G.- Allegheny, Armstrong, Beaver, Bedford, Berks, Blair, Butler, Cambria, Centre, Chester, Clearfield, Clinton, Cumberland, Elk, Fayette, Forest, Franklin, Lebanon, Mckean, Montgomery, Philadelphia, Somerset, Westmoreland, York

Your thoughts?

In the face of your broad ranging search, I clearly don’t have enough info to generalize across Pa, but my impression appears to be correct for some waters in SE Pa. How representative that is, I don’t know. I see in the clearest example that a change was made in York Co where all stocked streams were traditionally stocked by Huntsdale Hatchery. Checking the 2024 schedule, I found that Codorus Ck, a mudsnail location gleaned from the PFBC web site info, was now stocked by PG while the rest of the county’s waters continued to be stocked by Huntsdale. I don’t know which yr that started but it was relatively recent.

 

[Cznymph]

I clearly don’t have enough info to generalize across Pa, but my impression appears to be correct for some waters in SE Pa. I see in the clearest example that a change was made in York Co where all stocked streams were traditionally stocked by Huntsdale Hatchery. Checking the 2024 schedule, I found that Codorus Ck, a mudsnail location gleaned from the PFBC web site info, was now stocked by PG while the rest of the county’s waters continued to be stocked by Huntsdale. I don’t know which yr that started but it was relatively recent.

So what about all the other streams that Benner Spring and Pleasant Gap are stocking? They can’t all have Mudsnails?

Could the change in stocking be tied to a fish shortage within the hatchery?

 

[Mike]

I recommend contacting your regional AFM about those questions.

 

[Cznymph]

I recommend contacting your regional AFM about those questions.

So what you’re saying is that you don’t know?

 

[caddisflyer]

Segloch? That stream is totally wasted. Finding Browns much less Brook Trout in there these days would be tough.

 

[bringthepain]

It seems the headline claim of 100million in the red is dubious and based on them receiving that money during the runaway COVID spending (goes through 2028). If his calculus is that their budgets are zero after receiving that "found money" justifies the claim, it is flawed because the agency just took on projects they did not have the money to do. I hope they are not making the mistake of using COVID money to backfill a "normal" operating budget . Unfortunately, many states, municipalities and school districts did this and they are facing a time bomb.

My understanding is that the opposite is true. The covid 'money' is gone but the districts are expected to keep funding the programs. I'm talking schools here. I was just talking about this with somebody yesterday