Stocking delays???

Fish Sticks

Fish Sticks

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Another forum member mention stocking delays on BS, codorus, tully and a few others without a listed reason why from PFBC.

Anyone have more information?

This smells like a fish health/aquatic invasive species issue to me( like with the NZ mud snails this past year) but obviously there could be many other reasons. If you have anymore info chime in.
 
Another forum member mention stocking delays on BS, codorus, tully and a few others without a listed reason why from PFBC.

Anyone have more information?

This smells like a fish health/aquatic invasive species issue to me( like with the NZ mud snails this past year) but obviously there could be many other reasons. If you have anymore info chime in.
Without more knowledge of the situation why do you presume that the most likely cause is mud snails or some other invasive/nuisance in the hatchery (except for the browns and rainbows they are going to purposefully spread.) There you go, already acknowledged how they are spreading invasives and harming native fish so it doesn't have to be brought up again.

You may be right, you may be wrong. I don't know. Just curious as to why that is your first assumption.

On the stocking chart for York Co it lists Codorous as "postponed" but not East Branch Codorus or any other stocked water in York. Also, with all waters in York Co supposedly stocked by the Huntsdale facility I doubt a mud snail infestation or the likes at a hatchery would only impact one stocked trout stream.

Hey, I could be wrong, I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again.
 
Without more knowledge of the situation why do you presume that the most likely cause is mud snails or some other invasive/nuisance in the hatchery (except for the browns and rainbows they are going to purposefully spread.) There you go, already acknowledged how they are spreading invasives and harming native fish so it doesn't have to be brought up again.

You may be right, you may be wrong. I don't know. Just curious as to why that is your first assumption.

On the stocking chart for York Co it lists Codorous as "postponed" but not East Branch Codorus or any other stocked water in York. Also, with all waters in York Co supposedly stocked by the Huntsdale facility I doubt a mud snail infestation or the likes at a hatchery would only impact one stocked trout stream.

Hey, I could be wrong, I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again.
because a delay could be a quarantine like we just saw this fall with mudsnails
 
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I acknowledged it could be anything else(logistics ect.). I’d just like to find out what it is
 
Q

because a delay could be a quarantine like we just saw this fall with mudsnails
Right......but wouldn't that most likley affect more than just one stream since all of York County is stocked by the same hatchery? I only say this because I wonder how likely it is that one part of the hatchery or "raceway" is contaminated and the other parts are free of contamination.

However, upon further researching the Berks County streams many of them are postponed, not just the Tully. They are mostly stocked by Bellefonte. With many streams postponed and most are being stocked by Bellefonte that is more likely to suggest an invasive problem, I would think, but as we acknowledged it could be anything. Plus other counties that are stocked by the Bellefonte hatchery are not delayed. There are a couple of postponements in Berks from Huntsdale as well. I am assuming it has to do with staff/availability of stocking trucks but just a guess.
 
Without more knowledge of the situation why do you presume that the most likely cause is mud snails or some other invasive/nuisance in the hatchery (except for the browns and rainbows they are going to purposefully spread.) There you go, already acknowledged how they are spreading invasives and harming native fish so it doesn't have to be brought up again.

You may be right, you may be wrong. I don't know. Just curious as to why that is your first assumption.

On the stocking chart for York Co it lists Codorous as "postponed" but not East Branch Codorus or any other stocked water in York. Also, with all waters in York Co supposedly stocked by the Huntsdale facility I doubt a mud snail infestation or the likes at a hatchery would only impact one stocked trout stream.

Hey, I could be wrong, I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again.
Tully and others in Berks Co receive fish from Bellefonts while Big Spring and Codorus receive them from Huntsdale.Also, E. Branch Codorus is still scheduled for the same time,date,and meeting place. Same situation on Green Spring and Big Spring.
 
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Right......but wouldn't that most likley affect more than just one stream since all of York County is stocked by the same hatchery? I only say this because I wonder how likely it is that one part of the hatchery or "raceway" is contaminated and the other parts are free of contamination.

However, upon further researching the Berks County streams many of them are postponed, not just the Tully. They are mostly stocked by Bellefonte. With many streams postponed and most are being stocked by Bellefonte that is more likely to suggest an invasive problem, I would think, but as we acknowledged it could be anything. Plus other counties that are stocked by the Bellefonte hatchery are not delayed. There are a couple of postponements in Berks from Huntsdale as well. I am assuming it has to do with staff/availability of stocking trucks but just a guess.
Your probably right, it just reminded me of the last time I remember one of these delays. But it sounds like there may be better explanations, still would like to know.
 
I only say this because I wonder how likely it is that one part of the hatchery or "raceway" is contaminated and the other parts are free of contamination.
I have no actual info from the hatcheries or anything. But, pretty likely.

My understanding is that they'd move fish out of a raceway, clean it, move fish into that raceway, clean the one they came from, etc. I could easily see how that would force them to spread out stockings from affected hatcheries. You've got fish in a verified clean raceway for however long, you stock them, and then move fish from a potentially affected raceway into the clean one, monitor for so long, stock them, repeat.
 
Another forum member mention stocking delays on BS, codorus, tully and a few others without a listed reason why from PFBC.

Anyone have more information?

This smells like a fish health/aquatic invasive species issue to me( like with the NZ mud snails this past year) but obviously there could be many other reasons. If you have anymore info chime
Wasn't Codorus Creek a waterway that was confirmed for mudsnails? Maybe they're keeping the trucks as far away from there as possible ?
 
I wonder if there is an issue with the fleet?
 
I have no actual info from the hatcheries or anything. But, pretty likely.

My understanding is that they'd move fish out of a raceway, clean it, move fish into that raceway, clean the one they came from, etc. I could easily see how that would force them to spread out stockings from affected hatcheries. You've got fish in a verified clean raceway for however long, you stock them, and then move fish from a potentially affected raceway into the clean one, monitor for so long, stock them, repeat.
But by moving fish around from raceway to raceway and with trout being able to ingest mud snails and then excrete live snails, how would you ever know that you aren't spreading snails to every raceway the fish enter once they start pooping them out?

Or are the trout so fat from the high quality Purina they are nibbling on that they wouldn't even attempt to eat a snail? lol
 
You got a better way? I think we've already stated on this site it's a dangerous game they're playing. I don't think a 100% foolproof method exists.

But clean a raceway really well. Put fish in it. Leave em in long enough for digestive stuff to happen. Take fish out and put them into another certified clean raceway. Drain the one they came from, examine really close. Is the raceway still mudsnail free? I am not saying it's foolproof by any means. Maybe 1 pooped one and another fish ate it before it got to cement, and it only takes one. But, if you find none after putting and removing a load of fish from a clean raceway, it's probably about the best that can be done to call that batch of fish snail-free. So they stock that batch of fish and repeat the process.

All of this shuffling around and quarantining fish, checking raceways, etc. likely slows the throughput into the stocking trucks, hence delays in stocking? You do the best you can to supplement from other hatcheries, but like airports, delays start stacking up at other sites too.

Yeah, I'm just shooting from the hip here. No real information is present in this post. But it makes sense to me in what we're seeing.
 
Codorus has been reported to be infested with mud snails, however, I never understood the stocking of that stream any way, it supports wild brown reproduction well into the stocked area. And the area that is stocked is mostly posted and the unposted area is difficult to fish.
 
I think the one guy on this site who informed us all of the outbreak at first had the best idea. Dispatch of those fish. I mean your talking real damage if you spread em. Would it have been so horrible if license buyers got a guarantee no AIS would be spread, less stocked trout over native fish, and homeless veterans organizations/homeless shelters and food banks got the fillets for a fish fry???
 
Just throwing my WAG in the ring since it's fun to speculate. I believe it must have something to do with the streams rather than the stocked trout. If it was a hatchery issue, I doubt they'd be stocking anything from those hatcheries.

It could be logistics, too (best guess), and they're routing fish from those streams labeled as postponed to other waters in that district that they anticipate will have higher use on opening day. I think there's something to the location of these streams all being in the same general area.
 
You got a better way? I think we've already stated on this site it's a dangerous game they're playing. I don't think a 100% foolproof method exists.

But clean a raceway really well. Put fish in it. Leave em in long enough for digestive stuff to happen. Take fish out and put them into another certified clean raceway. Drain the one they came from, examine really close. Is the raceway still mudsnail free? I am not saying it's foolproof by any means. Maybe 1 pooped one and another fish ate it before it got to cement, and it only takes one. But, if you find none after putting and removing a load of fish from a clean raceway, it's probably about the best that can be done to call that batch of fish snail-free. So they stock that batch of fish and repeat the process.

All of this shuffling around and quarantining fish, checking raceways, etc. likely slows the throughput into the stocking trucks, hence delays in stocking? You do the best you can to supplement from other hatcheries, but like airports, delays start stacking up at other sites too.

Yeah, I'm just shooting from the hip here. No real information is present in this post. But it makes sense to me in what we're seeing.
Nope. I never claimed I had a better way and I am not making suggestions....just deciphering what I am seeing as the situation. We could just stop stocking trout, that would help. How have fish densities/populations been affected in the western waters with the longest documented snail populations and the streams with the highest densities of snails?

Really stopping the spread of invasive species is all but an impossibility in most all instances. Humans and society fail at it nearly every chance that we even try. We merely slow the advancement and then sit back and watch to see what happens and how things change.
 
Nope. I never claimed I had a better way and I am not making suggestions....just deciphering what I am seeing as the situation. We could just stop stocking trout, that would help. How have fish densities/populations been affected in the western waters with the longest documented snail populations and the streams with the highest densities of snails?

Really stopping the spread of invasive species is all but an impossibility in most all instances. Humans and society fail at it nearly every chance that we even try. We merely slow the advancement and then sit back and watch to see what happens and how things change.
I mean at the end of the day drastic reduction of further spread of aquatic invasive species is very feasible in some cases. Just not with PFBC offering free rides and teaching the general public by example that its every humans god given right to move fish around in buckets. Other states have already limited spread with policies prohibiting live bait transfer, stocking, and promoting public education. PAFB is doing public education………that your allowed to dump in god knows what where you please in most cases.

There are examples of successful projects to keep native species in place and invasive ones out all over the country at smaller scales. Sometimes all ya have to do is not drop invasive species in the water and teach people the same. It won’t prevent all invasions but it will prevent many. And even if it only slows other thats a bridge to prevent extinctions until we develop better biological controls for invasive species which will likely arise.
 
I mean at the end of the day drastic reduction of further spread of aquatic invasive species is very feasible in some cases. Just not with PFBC offering free rides and teaching the general public by example that its every humans god given right to move fish around in buckets. Other states have already limited spread with policies prohibiting live bait transfer, stocking, and promoting public education. PAFB is doing public education………that your allowed to dump in god knows what where you please in most cases.

There are examples of successful projects to keep native species in place and invasive ones out all over the country at smaller scales. Sometimes all ya have to do is not drop invasive species in the water and teach people the same. It won’t prevent all invasions but it will prevent many. And even if it only slows other thats a bridge to prevent extinctions until we develop better biological controls for invasive species which will likely arise.
I'm not specifically talking about fish. People suck at stopping the spread of invasives, period. Fish should be one of the absolute easiest and we can't even stop that. Lanternflies=failure. Pythons=failure. Stink bugs=failure. Mud snails=failure. Oscar=failure. Gypsy moth=failure. Knifefish=failure. Emerald Ash Borer=failure. Snakeheads, blue cats, flatheads=failure. And the list goes on and on and on not counting the invasives we've purposefully spread and see as good. And then there plants. Yeah, we can't stop them either.

What are the examples of successes? I'm sure there are some, but what are they?
 
I'm not specifically talking about fish. People suck at stopping the spread of invasives, period. Fish should be one of the absolute easiest and we can't even stop that. Lanternflies=failure. Pythons=failure. Stink bugs=failure. Mud snails=failure. Oscar=failure. Gypsy moth=failure. Knifefish=failure. Emerald Ash Borer=failure. Snakeheads, blue cats, flatheads=failure. And the list goes on and on and on not counting the invasives we've purposefully spread and see as good. And then there plants. Yeah, we can't stop them either.

What are the examples of successes? I'm sure there are some, but what are they?


Yea fish wise the success stories are there on a finer scale.

Primary Prevention: states/national parks branding and educating native species values to public and educating on dangers of invasive species. Hard to measure the effectiveness on an individual stream basis but likely one of most effective tools at fine scale in these smaller areas we can preserve native fauna. For fish above physical, chemical, or thermal barriers ect. Or just prohibitive distance from invasive fish species.

Secondary prevention:(when invasion has already occurred and you get rid of it. Goldens ,Apache, Gilla, and various cutthroat trout have likely been saved from eventual extinction by removing invasive species fine scale after spread.

Mosquitoes that were invasive have almost been eradicated by using selective pathogens/diseases to kill them off. Super interesting option for all invasive species.



There is supermale invasive brook trout showing some promise for rio grand cutthroats.

“By the end of the second spawning season, in 2020, 75% of the fish captured in Leandro Creek were male, and almost 30% of the juveniles from test streams around Vermejo were the male offspring of YY brook trout. Miller hopes this year’s percentages will be higher.”

There are neofemale crayfish being developed for sex ratio skew based suppression of invasive crayfish.

It is very likely given the focus on biological controls that we are going to pioneer more of these secondary prevention strategies to mitigate spread at larger scales.


Tertiary prevention of spread: where there is ongoing progressive invasion without eradication/removal. This is the slowing of spread you mentioned. A likely perfect successful example is the savage river brook trout management area where a small micro-population of brown trout turns up from odd year to odd year but can never establish itself. Its likely if you were to stock that area you run the risk harming any ratio of brook to brown biological resistance that a large healthy interconnected brook trout meta population has, increasing the chances for achieving a higher stage of invasion.

Thats why i always laugh when people say “cats out of bag” because there are these different ways of preventing or dealing with spread and as control technologies improve we will probably be able to shift some species/cases from tertiary to secondary, if our pessimism and lack of effort hasn’t allowed the invasive species to cause the native species to go extinct.

Terrestrial species I am not as familiar with control techniques
 
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