Still Lots of Fish in STWs

Fewer fish in the stocked sections will push the bait and gear guys to the headwaters not all of them practice catch and release.
Your bigger Brook trout will be the ones caught and creeled.

How many of the catch & kill guys do you think would actually switch to fishing all the little **** trickles?

My guess is less than 5%. An arbitrary number, but realistic IMO. It's just not worth their effort. There's too much doubt and uncertainty surrounding wild trout for the average PA Trout Stamp holder to pursue them. The average joe blow thinks they are too rare (at least legal sized ones) and too hard to catch.
 
How many of the catch & kill guys do you think would actually switch to fishing all the little **** trickles?

My guess is less than 5%. An arbitrary number, but realistic IMO. It's just not worth their effort. There's too much doubt and uncertainty surrounding wild trout for the average PA Trout Stamp holder to pursue them. The average joe blow thinks they are too rare (at least legal sized ones) and too hard to catch.

Mhmmmmm. Tasty Gemmies.
 
What percentage of the brook trout population of the Loyalsock drainage do you think is downstream in the Loyalsock when stocking occurs?
Little known fact, radio tags expired in December so its more than 20% in all reality some fish in that study were not even done spawning 🙂
 
Nuts, fishermen will fish and and it will become more than 5%. More trout articles in the publications and video will entice more fisherman to the sanctuaries of the brook trout. stock fewer fish with poor education to the masses= will lead to even fewer fish in the streams.
Look for those studies or push for unbiased studies and not just the studies that favor your point of view.
I haven't seen nor read an unbiased study posted by you.
 
Nuts, fishermen will fish and and it will become more than 5%. More trout articles in the publications and video will entice more fisherman to the sanctuaries of the brook trout. stock fewer fish with poor education to the masses= will lead to even fewer fish in the streams.
Look for those studies or push for unbiased studies and not just the studies that favor your point of view.
I haven't seen nor read an unbiased study posted by you.
Lol biased studies, I did not know you were such a consumer of peer reviewed fisheries literature. Please extrapolate on the objective evidence of bias in those studies. “Just studies that favor my point of view”, it couldn’t be that my point of view was formed by reading the studies fisheries scientists publish, that’d be impossible(based on this exchange).
 
Nuts, fishermen will fish and and it will become more than 5%. More trout articles in the publications and video will entice more fisherman to the sanctuaries of the brook trout. stock fewer fish with poor education to the masses= will lead to even fewer fish in the streams.
Look for those studies or push for unbiased studies and not just the studies that favor your point of view.
I haven't seen nor read an unbiased study posted by you.

The guys doing the research to find them are.... ....us.

Or, were us at one time.

I think it's much more of a stretch to say that Opening Day Joe is suddenly going to become a trout research and exploration junkie so that he can keep a couple limits of trout each year than it is to expect him just to quit.

Seeing a wild trout stream on some list and going their blind and actually catching enough legal fish to make a limit is going to be difficult for most people. It's big enough of a hurdle to weed out almost everyone who relies on stocked put and take. Furthermore, there are an awful lot of folks fishing put-and-take in areas that are distant to good or even fair wild trout fishing. In my case, I am a solid hour from respectable wild trout opportunities and they are nowhere near as easy or consistent as the waters that get most of the attention on this board. People from my area are not going to drive an hour for maybe a chance at a couple keepers. They would just find something else to do.

As for the few that start doing research and exploration, I think it's very likely they become advocates for wild trout and wild trout streams as a result of the effort they have put into it. I think that's how it worked for most of us. That's fine with me even if they still want to keep a few.
 
expect him just to quit.
As a southeastern PA angler, I see this quite frequently. Give it two weeks to a month after opening day and most folks are gone, having been satisfied with their fish murder numbers. The only good factor where I live is how easy it is to out-fish most, I would hate having to sling it out with skilled anglers. It always amazes me how lazy these local people are about fishing different parts of a creek. They just go to the same over-fished holes day in and day out, not bothering to explore just a few hundred yards upstream to start getting back into fish. Amazing!
 
There is an ATW in Lancaster I like to fish in August that gets warm but is shaded. Now it's a large stretch, but if you fish the whole thing and fish it fast with a streamer, you can still catch your limit.

Typo or m I too dense to figure out what “ATW” means?

I haven’t visited a stocker creek for a few weeks but I was thinking about heading out there again, last I was out it looked like there were still visible trout and just a few seemingly novice anglers out spooking them.
 
Typo or m I too dense to figure out what “ATW” means?

I haven’t visited a stocker creek for a few weeks but I was thinking about heading out there again, last I was out it looked like there were still visible trout and just a few seemingly novice anglers out spooking them.
ATW = approved trout waters.

FWIW, I fished a mountain freestone (great flow) yesterday that was at 52F! The trout did NOT cooperate.
 
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In response to Dave's original post, and I believe it has been discussed before here... I think the Commish needs to go back to two opening days.

Stocked fish in my neck of the suburban jungle didn't have a chance after even the second stocking dates this year.
 
In response to Dave's original post, and I believe it has been discussed before here... I think the Commish needs to go back to two opening days.

Stocked fish in my neck of the suburban jungle didn't have a chance after even the second stocking dates this year.
Are you saying that having a single opening day resulted in increased angling pressure following the first inseason stockings in comparison to when there were two opening days two weeks apart? What do you think the explanation for that might be if that is what occurred? I ask because when we measured angler use and interviewed anglers on regional bordering counties during the first duel opening days only 15% of the anglers in each region on that region’s opening day were from outside of the region.
 
Are you saying that having a single opening day resulted in increased angling pressure following the first inseason stockings in comparison to when there were two opening days two weeks apart? What do you think the explanation for that might be if that is what occurred? I ask because when we measured angler use and interviewed anglers on regional bordering counties during the first duel opening days only 15% of the anglers in each region on that region’s opening day were from outside of the region.
Sorry, I am referring to an earlier date for SEPA counties again. Earlier statewide is warranted for the same reasons I will try to explain below, so I am fine with that.

So, just as an example, MY Day was like March 24th in 2018. I think the southern counties need an even earlier start date in order not to waste the second stockings on some creeks. This year may have been an outlier because of drought and heat, but fish were put in with maybe a week shelf life in my humble opinion. These outlier seasons are likely to continue too, I believe.
 
I find it interesting that some here seem to look poorly upon those who fly fish for stocked trout. Perhaps many of those are not physically able to trek into the woods in search of "wild trout". I have fished for stockies for years and have yet to "harvest" one. Perhaps those "elite" native trout hunters should do just that and enjoy what you do. Allow others to do the same. The day that there will be no "stocked" fish will never happen, get over it.
 
Lol e
I find it interesting that some here seem to look poorly upon those who fly fish for stocked trout. Perhaps many of those are not physically able to trek into the woods in search of "wild trout". I have fished for stockies for years and have yet to "harvest" one. Perhaps those "elite" native trout hunters should do just that and enjoy what you do. Allow others to do the same. The day that there will be no "stocked" fish will never happen, get over it.
Lol “elite native trout hunters” yes its not a problem with stocking invasive species in a mass extinction event. Great attempt to brand efforts to mitigate an ecological disaster as an elitist movement
 
I find it interesting that some here seem to look poorly upon those who fly fish for stocked trout. Perhaps many of those are not physically able to trek into the woods in search of "wild trout". I have fished for stockies for years and have yet to "harvest" one. Perhaps those "elite" native trout hunters should do just that and enjoy what you do. Allow others to do the same. The day that there will be no "stocked" fish will never happen, get over it.
To be clear, I have no qualms with anglers, or anglers who fish for stocked trout. It’s the practice of stocking trout over wild brook trout that I have an issue with.
 
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To be clear, I have no qualms with anglers, or anglers who fish for stocked trout. It’s the practical of stocking trout over wild brook trout that I have an issue with.
That I understand. My position is a bit different, however. I would favor not stocking over the B’s and even some C’s if a yet-to-be developed legal trout per km or mi standard for the C’s was met in two successive surveys. The standard would represent a good fishery potential and establish a cut-off point above which stocking would cease. To my knowledge this has never been proposed by anglers or biologists, but I had seen at least one Class C that ST stream that I would never have proposed for stocking because the abundance of 7-12 inch ST was so high. So, such a good C is possible.
 
That I understand. My position is a bit different, however. I would favor not stocking over the B’s and even some C’s if a yet-to-be developed legal trout per km or mi standard for the C’s was met in two successive surveys. The standard would represent a good fishery potential and establish a cut-off point above which stocking would cease. To my knowledge this has never been proposed by anglers or biologists, but I had seen at least one Class C that ST stream that I would never have proposed for stocking because the abundance of 7-12 inch ST was so high. So, such a good C is possible.
I’ll one-up ya. I wouldn’t mind the stocking so much if they made brook trout C&R where there’s overlap. Not ideal, but it’s essentially what PFBC proposed for the 12 class a’s.
 
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