Status of Loyalsock Creek?

[SleepySheep]

Hey y'all,
As a new fly-fishersheep, I want to make a pilgrimage to my sacred childhood spot, World's End, and fish the Loyalsock. A few years ago, there was a good variety of fish below the dam, both trout and warmwater species. I also found native brookies in one of the nearby tributaries. However, a quick google search reveals a lot of articles and forum posts saying the Loyalsock is degraded, and not necessarily good fishing.

How bad is it? If I wade the Loyalsock upstream of World's End Park, am I going to find a watery wasteland barren of fish? Is heading downstream (but still relatively close to the park) any better? I don't need to catch a ton of fish, or the biggest fish, but I do want to make sure I don't make a trip all the way out there just to be faced with fishless waters.

So what's the take on the upper Loyalsock? Is it worth the time and investment? Or is it really that lousy to fish?

 

[lycoflyfisher]

The Loyalsock is heavily stocked around Worlds End amd downstream. All the tribs have wildfish except for some around lopez. There are more bugs below forksville due to the influence of Little Loyalsock.

 

[SleepySheep]

The Loyalsock is heavily stocked around Worlds End amd downstream. All the tribs have wildfish except for some around lopez. There are more bugs below forksville due to the influence of Little Loyalsock.

Thanks for the reply! Do they stock both above and below the dam that they use to create the swimming area? Are there any possibilities of wild trout (or even native brookies) in the main stream, or are they pretty much exclusively in the tributaries?

 

[coyoterahn]

It’s worth a trip provided that the temps are good. There are better streams but if part of your trip is to reconnect with old memories, go for it.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Yes and yes, although the 2nd is more by chance than a sure thing. Some stretches you may run into wild browns or holdover fish as well.

 

[troutbert]

Hey y'all,
As a new fly-fishersheep, I want to make a pilgrimage to my sacred childhood spot, World's End, and fish the Loyalsock. A few years ago, there was a good variety of fish below the dam, both trout and warmwater species. I also found native brookies in one of the nearby tributaries. However, a quick google search reveals a lot of articles and forum posts saying the Loyalsock is degraded, and not necessarily good fishing.

How bad is it? If I wade the Loyalsock upstream of World's End Park, am I going to find a watery wasteland barren of fish? Is heading downstream (but still relatively close to the park) any better? I don't need to catch a ton of fish, or the biggest fish, but I do want to make sure I don't make a trip all the way out there just to be faced with fishless waters.

So what's the take on the upper Loyalsock? Is it worth the time and investment? Or is it really that lousy to fish?

Do you have a link to the article saying that the Loyalsock is degraded? I'm curious what sort of degradation they are talking about.

I'm not aware of Loyalsock Creek's water quality declining in recent times. I think it's probably similar now to when I first fished it in the early 1970s. And it is stocked with trout now, just like back then.

 

[SleepySheep]

It’s worth a trip provided that the temps are good. There are better streams but if part of your trip is to reconnect with old memories, go for it.

Part of it is wish fulfillment. I never really got to fish up there when I was a kid, but I dreamed about it. That's why I feel like actually catching some fish is an important part of this particular journey 😛

Yes and yes, although the 2nd is more by chance than a sure thing. Some stretches you may run into wild browns or holdover fish as well.

As long as there's a chance, it's worth it. I'll do my best to improve my odds!

Do you have a link to the article saying that the Loyalsock is degraded? I'm curious what sort of degradation they are talking about.

I'm not aware of Loyalsock Creek's water quality declining in recent times. I think it's probably similar now to when I first fished it in the early 1970s. And it is stocked with trout now, just like back then.

Well I guess one source is this thread, which you have asked a similar question: https://www.paflyfish.com/threads/loyalsock-creek.49692/

I guess the outlook in that thread is pretty mixed, but I see some comments on floods and sediment having taken their toll on the creek, and even one person calling the creek "infertile". This is all anecdotal testimony of course, but so is any answer I'd receive on *this* thread.

There are also some articles from 2022 talking about the effects of local fracking on the stream, although that stuff seems mostly downstream. This site seems to be tracking the issues: https://www.fractracker.org/the-loyalsock-watershed-project/

I've also read about general degradation of trout populations in pretty much all PA freestone streams because of how hot they've been getting in the summer thanks to climate change. Most of the time, it is only mentioned that the fishing season on these creeks is shorter than it used to be, but I would assume that the heat has a general affect on fish mortality as well.

 

[HopBack]

Part of it is wish fulfillment. I never really got to fish up there when I was a kid, but I dreamed about it. That's why I feel like actually catching some fish is an important part of this particular journey 😛

As long as there's a chance, it's worth it. I'll do my best to improve my odds!


Well I guess one source is this thread, which you have asked a similar question: https://www.paflyfish.com/threads/loyalsock-creek.49692/

I guess the outlook in that thread is pretty mixed, but I see some comments on floods and sediment having taken their toll on the creek, and even one person calling the creek "infertile". This is all anecdotal testimony of course, but so is any answer I'd receive on *this* thread.

There are also some articles from 2022 talking about the effects of local fracking on the stream, although that stuff seems mostly downstream. This site seems to be tracking the issues: https://www.fractracker.org/the-loyalsock-watershed-project/

I've also read about general degradation of trout populations in pretty much all PA freestone streams because of how hot they've been getting in the summer thanks to climate change. Most of the time, it is only mentioned that the fishing season on these creeks is shorter than it used to be, but I would assume that the heat has a general affect on fish mortality as well.

We have better wild trout fishing in Pennsylvania than we did 75 years ago. This is largely due to cessation of coal mining and deforestation. There are still problems in every watershed but largely the trout populations have improved, not declined.

 

[SleepySheep]

We have better wild trout fishing in Pennsylvania than we did 75 years ago. This is largely due to cessation of coal mining and deforestation. There are still problems in every watershed but largely the trout populations have improved, not declined.

That's somewhat reassuring to hear. Though, I'd love to hear that natives are doing better, I guess wild trout is the next best thing! At least something good is thriving in that water.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

While Loyalsock Creek gets very warm in the summer, and may always have, it did and still does have brook trout move through the mainstem. To what frequency and how long brook trout may be in it, is not well understood. There are lots of brook trout in the tribs if you go looking for them.

 

[SleepySheep]

Taking these answers as an aggregate, it sounds like there's plenty worth fishing up on the Loyalsock. Not sure when I'll be able to make the journey, but maybe I'll be able to put a weekend aside in the fall to do so.

Thanks everyone!

 

[troutbert]

That's somewhat reassuring to hear. Though, I'd love to hear that natives are doing better, I guess wild trout is the next best thing! At least something good is thriving in that water.

In many places native brook trout populations are better now than they were in the early 1970s.

Whether PA brook trout populations overall have declined or increased since the early 1970s would be very hard to determine.

 

[jgish92]

Sheep,
Here are a couple of must have links for PA trout fishermen:

PFBC Adult Trout Stockings

Stocking schedule with GPS to upper and lower limits of each section

ArcGIS Web Application

pfbc.maps.arcgis.com

Handy PA map with lots of good info.

Spend some time searching these sites and you'll find answers to a lot of your questions.

 

[wildtrout2]

I've also read about general degradation of trout populations in pretty much all PA freestone streams because of how hot they've been getting in the summer thanks to climate change.

That may be the case with a lot of Pa freestone streams, but I wouldn't say "pretty much all Pa freestone streams".
There are two remote freestone streams in the Poconos that I have fished 40+ times each, and I can count on one hand the number of times either of them has had a stream temp over 60F. They are well shaded, and have very good trout populations. The highest temp on either of them in the 20+ years I've fished them is 63F. I consider temps between 58F and 62F to be the optimum for wild trout feeding activity.

Even with summer daytime air temps being in the 90s for a week straight, these two streams keep temps in the high 50s. The sunlight just doesn't get down to the stream for very long, so the water doesn't have a chance to get too warm.

 

[steliejim]

Hey y'all,
As a new fly-fishersheep, I want to make a pilgrimage to my sacred childhood spot, World's End, and fish the Loyalsock. A few years ago, there was a good variety of fish below the dam, both trout and warmwater species. I also found native brookies in one of the nearby tributaries. However, a quick google search reveals a lot of articles and forum posts saying the Loyalsock is degraded, and not necessarily good fishing.

How bad is it? If I wade the Loyalsock upstream of World's End Park, am I going to find a watery wasteland barren of fish? Is heading downstream (but still relatively close to the park) any better? I don't need to catch a ton of fish, or the biggest fish, but I do want to make sure I don't make a trip all the way out there just to be faced with fishless waters.

So what's the take on the upper Loyalsock? Is it worth the time and investment? Or is it really that lousy to fish?

I fished it religiously from 1987 to 2012.
Always did better in the Lycoming County water.

 

[troutbert]

I've also read about general degradation of trout populations in pretty much all PA freestone streams because of how hot they've been getting in the summer thanks to climate change. Most of the time, it is only mentioned that the fishing season on these creeks is shorter than it used to be, but I would assume that the heat has a general affect on fish mortality as well.

There are a lot of good wild trout populations in PA freestone streams.

 

[salmonoid]

That's somewhat reassuring to hear. Though, I'd love to hear that natives are doing better, I guess wild trout is the next best thing! At least something good is thriving in that water.

Thirty years ago, I backpacked most of the Loyalsock Trail, over several five days periods in successive years, with a camp group. On one of those trips, I spotted a beautiful wild brookie in the Worlds End swimming area. In another one of those trips, I spotted another beautiful wild brookie just a few dozens of yards below the Haystacks. In 2019, my family and I stayed in one of the cabins at Worlds End in July. There was a largish (18"+) brown hanging out under the road bridge right above the swimming area. You could see a bright red tail and adipose fin on it, so it was either a well-established holdover or a wild fish.

In recent years (and probably not so recent years too), it's been the recipient of some big rain events, which have wiped out the Worlds End Cabin road bridge a number of times.

The only time I ever fished the Loyalsock proper was in the DHALO section. I saw one rainbow, which I couldn't catch but in hindsight, the water temps were probably up and the fish were surviving, not actively eating. My brother and I found a nice sized rainbow a bit below Haystacks one time - he was fishing with a spinning gear rod, but couldn't get it to take anything, untiL I gave him a black wooly bugger. First cast, fish on.. Have fished a number of the Loyalsock tribs - pleased with all of them.

 

[SleepySheep]

Thirty years ago, I backpacked most of the Loyalsock Trail, over several five days periods in successive years, with a camp group. On one of those trips, I spotted a beautiful wild brookie in the Worlds End swimming area. In another one of those trips, I spotted another beautiful wild brookie just a few dozens of yards below the Haystacks. In 2019, my family and I stayed in one of the cabins at Worlds End in July. There was a largish (18"+) brown hanging out under the road bridge right above the swimming area. You could see a bright red tail and adipose fin on it, so it was either a well-established holdover or a wild fish.

In recent years (and probably not so recent years too), it's been the recipient of some big rain events, which have wiped out the Worlds End Cabin road bridge a number of times.

The only time I ever fished the Loyalsock proper was in the DHALO section. I saw one rainbow, which I couldn't catch but in hindsight, the water temps were probably up and the fish were surviving, not actively eating. My brother and I found a nice sized rainbow a bit below Haystacks one time - he was fishing with a spinning gear rod, but couldn't get it to take anything, untiL I gave him a black wooly bugger. First cast, fish on.. Have fished a number of the Loyalsock tribs - pleased with all of them.

All the replies with positive experiences have me so amped to get up there!