st croix or sage?

B

BigRedChevy11

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May 27, 2014
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Hey all.
Im looking to buy a used fly rod to save a few $$ in order to buy a nice reel. My plans are to use it for smallmouth/ largemouth fishing on the big D. First is a st. Croix Avid 9' 6wt in great shape and the price is 125. I have other st croix spinning rods and like them but fly fishing is a new world to me. 2nd is a sage GFL 790 DS 9' 7wt in good shape for 100. I dont know much about the older model sage rods.

Is one of these better than the other? Or should I just eat it and spend the $250+ on a TFO?

Id rather pay a little extra for something nice than buy junk 2x and eventually "work my way up" to something later on. On the same note I want to stay around 350 for the whole setup (Rod reel line tip....)

What should I do and is 350 an unreasonable budget for what I am looking for??
 
I'm a St. Croix guy. I own three avids (2 older models and 1 newer version).

They are some of my favorite rods and have caught everything from brookies in mountain streams to pike in huge Canadian lakes on an avid.
 
Price being similar, I would go with the more "modern" rod. So that particular sage would not be on my radar given your other choices.

I'm not a fan of TFO but you are going to get a higher performance rod than if you buy a rather old sage. With that said you can easily get something better than a Sage DS or any model of TFO for $250 if you keep an eye on the used market.

If you really want to get away cheap go after a Redington path and throw an orvis Clearwater large arbor on it. You'll come in right under $200 and you will have a heck of a good entry level rig from two reputable brands. Throw a decent line into the mix and you'll still be under $250. The redington rods in the sub $200 price range are all better then the lower end St. Croix IMO.

Kev
 
Actually entry level rig is almost a misnomer for the Path/Clearwater combo. It is so vastly superior to what was available at that cost only ten years ago it is ridiculous.

It is a budget rig but if I lost everything I owned I would run out and buy that very setup as soon as I saved a couple hundred bucks.

Kev
 
MKern wrote:
I'm a St. Croix guy. I own three avids (2 older models and 1 newer version).

They are some of my favorite rods and have caught everything from brookies in mountain streams to pike in huge Canadian lakes on an avid.
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What weight are your avids? Is the Avid im looking at going to be a more fast or medium action? Only reason I ask is that I have read that a slower action rod is better for control. I have never used a rod this long before.

I dont think I am against buying a cheaper rod reel combo to start but I know as soon as I get the hang of it ill wish I bought the quality stuff from the beginning.

It seems like the redington line is directed to the new fisherman. Will I notice a difference in feel, fit and function between say the "Path" that retails for around 120 bucks and the avid that goes for near 300 new?

Thanks
 
BigRedChevy11 wrote:

I dont think I am against buying a cheaper rod reel combo to start but I know as soon as I get the hang of it ill wish I bought the quality stuff from the beginning.
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Then why not spend more from the get go?


It seems like the redington line is directed to the new fisherman. Will I notice a difference in feel, fit and function between say the "Path" that retails for around 120 bucks and the avid that goes for near 300 new?

Thanks
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The avid will probably have a little better build quality on the finish, guides wraps and cork quality, but all rods are essentially the same construction. Performance is mostly a function of rod blank design. That is where the real differences are. Expensive, high quality rods can suck, and cheap rods can be fantastic fishing tools. The biggest factor in the cost of these rods is place of manufacture. The Redingtons are Chinese and the st. Croix is american. If that matters to you, then by all means go with the St. Croix as you aren't going to get into an American made rod for much less. In fact the Avid and Imperial are probably two of the best bang-for-your-buck entry level American made rods. On the other hand, Asian built rods from Redington, TFO, and a number of other brands are a good way to maximize the performance you get for your dollar. The quality is slightly lower in many cases but it usually isn't a deal breaker when you take into consideration the performance. Granted, there are a lot of odd ball brands selling Chinese built rods, but if you stick to major brands you will get a good rod for the most part.


Kev


 
I have Sage and St. Croix. The Sage Response has been my go-to rod this year so far and I have it paired with a Lamson Guru. Both of these I have seen on Ebay used and if you can get the price down a bit on Ebay it is a very nice combo. I also like my St. Croix Avid as well that I have paired with a Ross CLA. Probably more expensive than you are wanting to go with but both great combos!
 
Im not a hard core USA made only guy but I try and stay away from china and Jap products. My final decision buying st.croix spinning rods was made because they are USA made. And im happy with them.

What are my options with USA fly rods in the mid price range. I know loomis makes a pro4x for around 350 in a 6wt. I would need to raise my budget then to 5 bills..
Like I said I would rather buy one and be happy for a long time than spend 150 bucks on "starter" gear.

My first dirtbike was a cr125. I was 13 and was terrified for the first year. I didnt get rid of it until I was 22. But I saved a ton just by not buying the "stepping stone" bikes most guys get.
 
St. Croix Avid or Sage Approach are both good rods...you won't break the bank and they are nice rods. As for reels, I like Lamson or Ross. Dependable and not cheaply made...will last!
 
To answer the thread title; I buy two kinds of fly rods, Sage... and Sage.

If I was going to skimp on one part of a fly fishing combination it would be the reel. As long as the reel balances the rod, it basically holds line. A decent drag is nice for large fish, it's like a CCW, it's better to have and not need than need and not have. Large arbors have their place when you hook a fish that you want to put on the reel and have a lot of slack line at your feet, or the fish makes an immediate run for your feet.

Back to rods, I would look at the Sage Approach. Try ebay if a new one is more than you want to spend.

 
they are both nice rods. both are, in my opinion, medium action rods. which I prefer for mor delicate presentstions. however for bass using poppers and larger streamers I would go with something more in the med-fast range. as for a reel, the best bang for the buck is a Orvis BBS. for a few more dollars I prefer Lamson. Velocities are on close out and are worth the money.
 
As an owner of several Sage rods and several St Croix rods, I'd have to say Sage uses higher quality components. I own an original GFL & a GFLRP. They are quite different in action. What type of action do you personally prefer? If you like a more moderate action / blank that bends deeper, the Avid would be a good fit. If you prefer a faster / more tip flex, look at the Imperial.

One thing you may not have considered is rod replacement if broken. Some of the older models may no longer be able to be fixed.

In the price point you are looking in.......

St Croix Avid used or Imperial new
Sage FLI, Flight or RPL+ all used
Redington CPX, Link new or used
Redington Pursuit or Path new
TFO BVK
TFO Axiom used or on clearance

The TFO rods ARE Asian made but a 5 weight will handle 5 & 6 lines easily. They also have cheapest warranty service.

Budget minded reel with a decent drag, Redington Surge. Ross CLA and Lamson Guru next step up. Get yourself a decent line too.
 
I'd take the Sage DS. If you go with the St Croix Avid, that's a good rod too. Sage is like a Caddy, and St Croix is like a Buick. I think you are wayyy better off with either of those rods than a new TFO or other brand rod built on a Chinese or Korean blank. Both Sage and St Croix blanks are produced in house by skilled workers who probably fly fish for trout, bass, etc.. I don't really know who is producing the Korean and Chinese blanks, but I would go on a limb and say they aren't as skilled and have never used the rods they build for their marketed purpose.

I actually prefer the DS to the past few "entry level" Sage rods. The fact that the St Croix Avid has been produced so long is a testament to its quality.

I believe rod taper and blank design is much more important than the materials or advanced technology used to build a blank. I have used both of the rods you mention, and they are both winners.
 
How about the warranty. If I buy the Avid 2nd hand will st. croix still cover it if something happens??

Im going to a small fly shop tomorrow. They have a few low end premium rods (loomis pro4x, Avid, bvk) I can play with as well as a nice hardy zenith. I wanna see too. Plus I think it will help to talk one on one with someone that knows the ropes.
 
How about the warranty. If I buy the Avid 2nd hand will st. croix still cover it if something happens??

Im going to a small fly shop tomorrow. They have a few low end premium rods (loomis pro4x, Avid, bvk) I can play with as well as a nice hardy zenith. I wanna see too. Plus I think it will help to talk one on one with someone that knows the ropes.
 
The only way they'll cover it is if you lied and said you were the original owner (not that I'm recommending it).

One company that I know for sure that will repair a rod not bought by the original owner is Scott. The cost is around 75 to 100 bucks with shipping if I remember correctly. They also repair rods that are out of production (even long out of production).

Going to they fly shop and casting some rods is a good idea.
 
moon1284 wrote:
I'd take the Sage DS. If you go with the St Croix Avid, that's a good rod too. Sage is like a Caddy, and St Croix is like a Buick.
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Would you rather have a Buick with AC, power windows, and heated seats or a Caddilac with none of those luxuries? That is what you get when you buy a low end Sage. (Approach, Fli, etc.). You are getting a nice rod of equal or better quality for less cost in the St. Croixs IMO. The Sages are over priced at that performance level.

I think you are wayyy better off with either of those rods than a new TFO or other brand rod built on a Chinese or Korean blank. Both Sage and St Croix blanks are produced in house by skilled workers who probably fly fish for trout, bass, etc.. I don't really know who is producing the Korean and Chinese blanks, but I would go on a limb and say they aren't as skilled and have never used the rods they build for their marketed purpose.
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Thats a very romantic and idealistic notion. However, anyone can be trained to properly assemble and finish rods.These same people are working in factories that are churning out circuit boards. Fly rods are child's play for foreign industry.
The most expensive foreign built rods are on par with the comparable domestic product. While I prefer to purchase made in the USA, I no longer assume inferior quality based on place of origin alone. There is American made junk just as their is Chinese junk. The opposite is also true. As I said before, blank design is where the true differences in rods can be found and with the better brands, the designs are still originating from experienced fly casters. The astronomical price for American made high end rods left a void in the market which Asian production fills: performance at low to moderate prices.

I actually prefer the DS to the past few "entry level" Sage rods. The fact that the St Croix Avid has been produced so long is a testament to its quality.
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I believe the Avid has been upgraded and changed several times over the years. This is not the same rod that was available 10 years ago.
 
I never casted a DS, though I've owned two DS2's (I still have an 890). The DS2 was a great rod and served its purpose (Sage's gateway drug) well.
 
Never casted DS or DS2 but understand the first gen was a very nice performing rod.
 
Krayfish, I've heard tell that the DS2 Graphite II were the same as the RP blanks. I could be wrong, I never casted an RP to compare.
 
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