Spruce Run Tests and Checkup (Stocking Tests)

[Broodstock]

The wild brown trout of frick park must be like the wild brown trout in the elkhorn in WV. /s

Ninemile suffers from the same issues that most of the other metro areas in this part of the state have - CSO. Thankfully unlike the elk horn most of the raw sewage is treated except for during heavy rain events, when some of it is mixed with storm water and ends up in the creeks and rivers. Ninemile has signage up warning people about the health hazards.

I’ve fished the stream, and seen the stream survey, and talked to the folks at Upstream who are doing great work to conserve what’s left of the daylit portion of this watershed. It’s probably as clean and healthy as it’s been in a hundred years. It cuts right through one of the largest slag heaps in the country- perhaps the world.

Never discourage the will to learn, especially for young people. Even us old farts have lots to still learn too. I think what the kid is trying to say is that conservation is relative. What if in 15 years he becomes a critical force in changing the way our state manages its resource for fisheries and watersheds for the better. Who are we to stop that potential?

FWIW, my money is on spruce run hitting 75 by July 4th. Its watershed is small and has a lot of impermeable surfaces that send runoff into storm sewers. What water is left will be too warm for trout. I love being wrong though, so I’m excited to see what happens next.

 

[KrsnaM]

The wild brown trout of frick park must be like the wild brown trout in the elkhorn in WV. /s

Ninemile suffers from the same issues that most of the other metro areas in this part of the state have - CSO. Thankfully unlike the elk horn most of the raw sewage is treated except for during heavy rain events, when some of it is mixed with storm water and ends up in the creeks and rivers. Ninemile has signage up warning people about the health hazards.

I’ve fished the stream, and seen the stream survey, and talked to the folks at Upstream who are doing great work to conserve what’s left of the daylit portion of this watershed. It’s probably as clean and healthy as it’s been in a hundred years. It cuts right through one of the largest slag heaps in the country- perhaps the world.

Never discourage the will to learn, especially for young people. Even us old farts have lots to still learn too. I think what the kid is trying to say is that conservation is relative. What if in 15 years he becomes a critical force in changing the way our state manages its resource for fisheries and watersheds for the better. Who are we to stop that potential?

FWIW, my money is on spruce run hitting 75 by July 4th. Its watershed is small and has a lot of impermeable surfaces that send runoff into storm sewers. What water is left will be too warm for trout. I love being wrong though, so I’m excited to see what happens next.

Thank you, and yea I wonder what will happen come July… the flooding has been cooling the waters and raising the depth a lot rn, wonder if it will have any impact as it gets warmer, I’ll have to stay monitoring it.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Thank you, and yea I wonder what will happen come July… the flooding has been cooling the waters and raising the depth a lot rn, wonder if it will have any impact as it gets warmer, I’ll have to stay monitoring it.

No, rain now has little to no impact on conditions you will see in June, July. The geology and landuse in your area play a big role for the stream conditions. Quick and flashy runoff, with little retention time.

While development and resource extraction have certainly played a part in impacting streams in the sw part of the state, the geology to start with likely never supported significant native trout populations. That does not mean they had less ecological value, many of these streams were full of a wide diversity of non game fishes and warmwater species.

 

[turkey]

The wild brown trout of frick park must be like the wild brown trout in the elkhorn in WV. /s

Ninemile suffers from the same issues that most of the other metro areas in this part of the state have - CSO. Thankfully unlike the elk horn most of the raw sewage is treated except for during heavy rain events, when some of it is mixed with storm water and ends up in the creeks and rivers. Ninemile has signage up warning people about the health hazards.

I’ve fished the stream, and seen the stream survey, and talked to the folks at Upstream who are doing great work to conserve what’s left of the daylit portion of this watershed. It’s probably as clean and healthy as it’s been in a hundred years. It cuts right through one of the largest slag heaps in the country- perhaps the world.

Never discourage the will to learn, especially for young people. Even us old farts have lots to still learn too. I think what the kid is trying to say is that conservation is relative. What if in 15 years he becomes a critical force in changing the way our state manages its resource for fisheries and watersheds for the better. Who are we to stop that potential?

FWIW, my money is on spruce run hitting 75 by July 4th. Its watershed is small and has a lot of impermeable surfaces that send runoff into storm sewers. What water is left will be too warm for trout. I love being wrong though, so I’m excited to see what happens next.

I recall an article that I read several years ago - I can't remember the publication or what year it was - but the subject was Nine Mile's improved water quality. There was mention of the ability to support trout, at least stocked trout but the tone of the piece was more "let's not put the cart before the horse." I think that was in reference to the CSO's. I wish I would've saved a link somewhere.

 

[Broodstock]

No, rain now has little to no impact on conditions you will see in June, July. The geology and landuse in your area play a big role for the stream conditions. Quick and flashy runoff, with little retention time.

While development and resource extraction have certainly played a part in impacting streams in the sw part of the state, the geology to start with likely never supported significant native trout populations. That does not mean they had less ecological value, many of these streams were full of a wide diversity of non game fishes and warmwater species.

Exactly - in terms of those other species, I am more excited to see the rainbow darters (Etheostoma caeruleum) in Ninemile than the brown trout. They are pretty silt sensitive, so as an indicator they are a good sign.

 

[KrsnaM]

@wildtrout2 I started doing a little bit of sketching on one of ur photos, might try an make a painting of it idk

 

[troutbert]

While development and resource extraction have certainly played a part in impacting streams in the sw part of the state, the geology to start with likely never supported significant native trout populations.

Does anyone really know that there were few wild trout in that region? If so, how is it known? And why would that be the case? Why would a small, forested stream in that region not be able to support native trout, while small, forested streams in most of the rest of PA did support native brook trout?

 

[KrsnaM]

Does anyone really know that there were few wild trout in that region? If so, how is it known? And why would that be the case? Why would a small, forested stream in that region not be able to support native trout, while small, forested streams in most of the rest of PA did support native brook trout?

Yeah idk, like I said, the nearest streams to spruce (sewickley and fern hollow) are noted by the PFBC to have wild trout, another tributary to the Ohio just like spruce... didn't think the conditions could be insanely different or anything.

 

[Broodstock]

Yeah idk, like I said, the nearest streams to spruce (sewickley and fern hollow) are noted by the PFBC to have wild trout, another tributary to the Ohio just like spruce... didn't think the conditions could be insanely different or anything.

Those streams are wild browns which came from stocking and now support natural reproduction. If they did have brook trout (native) those natives would have been gone with the first round of deforestation

 

[wildtrout2]

@wildtrout2 I started doing a little bit of sketching on one of ur photos, might try an make a painting of it idk
View attachment 1641235368View attachment 1641235367View attachment 1641235366

I'm flattered. Did you use metadata to figure the actual location?

 

[KrsnaM]

I'm flattered. Did you use metadata to figure the actual location?

thank you man, imma try to make a real painting of it now, hopefully it goes well... wish me luck!

 

[dryflyguy]

Yeah idk, like I said, the nearest streams to spruce (sewickley and fern hollow) are noted by the PFBC to have wild trout, another tributary to the Ohio just like spruce... didn't think the conditions could be insanely different or anything.

There is a Big Sewickly creek, which is stocked by the fish commission.

And Little Sewickly Creek, which is - or was - stocked by a sportsmen's club.
It also has WT. Fern Hollow run is a trib of it.
And it is in a mostly forested area

A third stream in that area is called Kilbuck Run, and has WT too.
I remember reading an article in the local paper about it years ago.

If I recall correctly, someone who lives on the stream stocked some trout.
And they started to reproduce, and I guess have been in there ever since.
Which is surprising to me - its really not in a forested area.
Most of it length runs right along I 279, and is mostly open.

However, both streams originate in the same area.
Leading me to wonder if perhaps there is a bit of limestone geology - or something else - in that spot to help them both support WT

 

[KrsnaM]

There is a Big Sewickly creek, which is stocked by the fish commission.

And Little Sewickly Creek, which is - or was - stocked by a sportsmen's club.
It also has WT. Fern Hollow run is a trib of it.
And it is in a mostly forested area

A third stream in that area is called Kilbuck Run, and has WT too.
I remember reading an article in the local paper about it years ago.

If I recall correctly, someone who lives on the stream stocked some trout.
And they started to reproduce, and I guess have been in there ever since.
Which is surprising to me - its really not in a forested area.
Most of it length runs right along I 279, and is mostly open.

However, both streams originate in the same area.
Leading me to wonder if perhaps there is a bit of limestone geology - or something else - in that spot to help them both support WT

yeah, I've been seeing that if the conditions are right, fingerling trout can thrive and kinda infuse into the natural ecosystem. I guess its kinda obvious to most of you more knowledged, but its pretty cool to me. I was thinking that if, hypothetically the conditions were right and by some way I stocked trout in spruce, I could get some larger trout as well as some fingerling to establish a humble population of sorts that would enter competition with the creek chub and blacknose dace and gradually shift the ecosystem to incorporate them. idk maybe im just imagining things 😂

 

[KrsnaM]

If I recall correctly, someone who lives on the stream stocked some trout.
And they started to reproduce, and I guess have been in there ever since.
Which is surprising to me - its really not in a forested area.

Trying to do the same thing, I might try taking some data from the little sewickley and fern hollow during the summer then as well, seeing how high those temperatures get and other conditional factors and compare them to spruce.