Small limestone creeks. How small is too small?

[bigslackwater]

We've talked a lot on this forum about exploring for brook trout in the far reaches of tributaries up in the mountains and how brookies can be found in some of the smallest waters, but what about tiny limestoners?

Where I live, in the Cumberland Valley, South Central PA, I see little spring creeks all over the place. Many are just small spring seeps trickling though a ditch full of water cress while others look just about big enough to hold trout. Is there a size limit or what clues factor in to these tiny springs holding trout?

 

[JackM]

The water must be at least 6 inches deep.

 

[Fishidiot]

Some of the tiny limestoners one sees can be real gems....if you do some exploring and can find a pool or section with some depth (many of these tiny creeks have undercut banks and good cover even though they're only a foot or two wide).

Of course, keep in mind that many of these aren't routinely fished so be careful about access and getting permission from a landowner as they may not be used to seeing anglers on their property.

 

[PennypackFlyer]

If they ain't got fish in them....there's probably a reason.

 

[bigslackwater]

Fishidiot, good point about permission. A few of these that I want to try have no "Posted" signs. I'm not going to just drop in and fish. My assumption is they are private property but not Posted because they don't get many people trying to fish their little ditch!

 

[johnstevens5462]

Check out Alexander Spring Run. I fished it a few weeks ago and it definitely holds fish. It's all on private property but just knock on doors and ask you will be surprised at what you find.

Middle Spring Creek is another small little limestone that fishes very nicely.

 

[bigslackwater]

Middle spring definitely on my list of creeks to explore soon! We meant to try it out last year but never got to it.

 

[Fishidiot]

Most of these tiny CV streams are in farm country. Without naming particular small, relatively unknown streams, I'd generally suggest that, when asking permission to fish them (many landowners will allow access) that you be clear in emphasizing that you practice catch and release, don't litter, and will not wear out your welcome by parking where you might be blocking farm equipment or work progress. Back in my hunting days, I learned to ask the farmer where to park and whether there were specific days or times when he/she would prefer I stay away.

 

[dryflyguy]

IMO - the smaller a stream is, the more difficult it is to FF.
So the issue for me is usually not whether tiny trickles hold trout - and I'm sure many do - but how much aggravation is involved in fishing them.
Generally - if I can easily step over a stream, then it's a little too small for my tastes.

 

[Chaz]

The most important factor is flow, that is, does it flow all year or does it dry up during the summer or go underground. Joe Armstrong's book should be helpful to you in this regard.
The second thing is, does it flow strong enough that it doesn't get too warm, the upward tolerance of brook trout is about 78 degrees. If the water exceeds that it probably won't hold brook trout.
If it has browns in it, it will likely not hold brookies if it's really small. If you are not involved with CVTU, I would suggest going to some meetings and talking to some of the members, they will know which ones hold brookies. Get involved. But they aren't the only conservation group in that region.
I'm told Bonny Brook does, but that may not be true, I've never fished it. If the water is say 2 ft. wide by 6 inches and stays cold, it should have brookies in it, but that is trumped by past agri practices.
Ask permission to fish.

 

[krayfish]

Looking at OP, no mention of brookies while post #10 specifically uses 'brookie'. He looking for trout not char.

 

[pcray1231]

Umm, perhaps you should re-read the OP!!!!! He specifies brook trout twice in the first sentence.

That said, I agree with your point though. He states that he's seen plenty of info regarding brookie fishing on small freestoners, but very little on fishing small limestoners (without mentioning species for the last part).

 

[troutbert]

There are some very small limestoners that hold wild trout. Small as in "step over" creeks. Small as in the tall grass on one side meets the grass on the other side.

Just give them a try. Get permission from the landowner, and go.

Sometimes the very headwaters, immediately below the headwater springs, do not hold trout, because of low oxygen, then the trout appear a little further downstream.

But if there are some riffles right up at the springs, that add oxygen, then the fish can be there right up to the springs.

 

[csoult]

This ones pretty small....

 

[bigslackwater]

If it's brookies in a tiny limestoner, then great. I've never caught a brookie in one, so that would be another first. I just want to know more about the fishable conditions of small limestoners. Good info so far. Thanks!

 

[Chaz]

bigslackwater wrote:
If it's brookies in a tiny limestoner, then great. I've never caught a brookie in one, so that would be another first. I just want to know more about the fishable conditions of small limestoners. Good info so far. Thanks!

Get a copy of Joe Armstrong's book he lists all the streams and what he found when he fished them.

 

[jifigz]

I don't care for the Joe Armstrong book all that much, personally. It is very old (originally published in 1992) and not all that inspiring of a read. It can most likely help you find a few streams in your area, but I don't really think that it is worth the money (or at least not worth it to me for the money I spent on it.) After a few quick glances it probably won't be cracked open many more times under my ownership.

 

[bigslackwater]

I have read the Joe Armstrong book. I agree that it is old and out of date but still an interesting book. An updated version would be wonderful to read. I've fished many of the streams in my county and I'd say it is 50/50 in line with his descriptions. Some of his assessments are dead on, and others are completely opposite of what he describes. This could be because of the stream changing over the course of 20+ years. He also visited each stream one time and mostly in the middle of summer. One thing I've learned is to not judge a creek by one trip. Some of my favorite creeks give me the skunk and show no signs of fish on a bad day, while other days are amazing.

 

[Chaz]

Thing to take into account in the Armstrong book is that he researched every area he visited, he fished all the streams in the book, and he told you flat out what not to fish. So it can save you time and money. While it's not a particularly good read, it has a ton of information. During the 20+ years of it's original publication though things change and streams get fenced off from livestock and improve to the point that they can hold fish or trees start growing along the stream when the farming is ended.
But the fish have to be nearby to populate a stream that hasn't had fish in forever or someone has to put them there..

 

[Trey]

Is the Hardback not updated like the paperback? Id like to pick it up as a reference, But its like $300 on amazon!