Seasons, rules and wild trout

[Prospector]

Swattie87 wrote:

dryflyguy wrote:
And I thought we had this cleared up in last years annual debate on this issue!

Getting an early start to our Cabin Fever topics this year. Late Fall 2019 has been colder/snowier than the last several years, which were relatively mild until Christmas, so it makes sense.

We've already gotten fishing during the spawn, and trespassing out of the way. Might as well knock this one out before the holidays too.

We still have navigable vs. non-navigable to look forward to. Spotburning discussions are still taboo (I think), but maybe we can get a temporary lifting of the ban if we run out of stuff to talk about during the first January Polar Vortex of the new year.

I love it. Good thought!!

 

[troutbert]

afishinado wrote:

Mike wrote:
One way to get rid of this topic is to not bring it up again or respond until such time that someone is cited. Whose ox has been gored to demand this much attention?

True enough^

This subject has been discussed every fall/winter season on PAFF for decades. I will guarantee, if anyone of the many thousands of posters present and past have either been cited or warned by the PFBC not to fish a an wild/unstocked trout streams between Labor Day and the trout opener, we would have heard about it.

It happened to me. I was harassed by a WCO for fishing on an unstocked, Class A wild trout stream in the fall.

It may seem like a small thing, until it happens to you.

 

[afishinado]

troutbert wrote:

afishinado wrote:

Mike wrote:
One way to get rid of this topic is to not bring it up again or respond until such time that someone is cited. Whose ox has been gored to demand this much attention?

True enough^

This subject has been discussed every fall/winter season on PAFF for decades. I will guarantee, if anyone of the many thousands of posters present and past have either been cited or warned by the PFBC not to fish a an wild/unstocked trout streams between Labor Day and the trout opener, we would have heard about it.

It happened to me. I was harassed by a WCO for fishing on an unstocked, Class A wild trout stream in the fall.

It may seem like a small thing, until it happens to you.

I agree, it is no small thing.

Of all the years of reading reading posts on here about the subject, this is the first I've ever heard of this happening to anyone.

Where was it and what were the circumstances?

 

[troutbert]

afishinado wrote:

troutbert wrote:

afishinado wrote:

Mike wrote:
One way to get rid of this topic is to not bring it up again or respond until such time that someone is cited. Whose ox has been gored to demand this much attention?

True enough^

This subject has been discussed every fall/winter season on PAFF for decades. I will guarantee, if anyone of the many thousands of posters present and past have either been cited or warned by the PFBC not to fish a an wild/unstocked trout streams between Labor Day and the trout opener, we would have heard about it.

It happened to me. I was harassed by a WCO for fishing on an unstocked, Class A wild trout stream in the fall.

It may seem like a small thing, until it happens to you.

I agree, it is no small thing.

Of all the years of reading reading posts on here about the subject, this is the first I've ever heard of this happening to anyone.

Where was it and what were the circumstances?

If I said where and when this happened, people could figure out who the WCO was, and that's not relevant.

The circumstances were that I was fishing an unstocked, Class A stream in October in a rural area. I heard a vehicle coming down the road, heard the brakes being applied hard, and the vehicle coming to an abrupt stop. Then the door slammed. A WCO scrambled down the bank, yelling angrily "Don't you know trout season is closed!!"

I replied, "I thought it was OK to fish on a catch-and-release basis."

He said, "That may be TECHNICALLY true, but if you kill or injure a trout, even accidentally, I could write you up."

He went back to his vehicle, and drove off. And I continued fishing. But it was no longer enjoyable, so after a little while I left and went home. That fishing day was ruined.

Notice that the WCO used the same language as was posted earlier in the thread.

The problem is that PFBC has kept this situation a "gray area" for decades, even though they've known of the problem all those years. As several have already said, they should just re-write the rules so that they are CLEAR.

They have a responsibility to the angling public and their own WCOs to do that.

 

[Swattie87]

tb - Did that encounter effect whether or not you’ve continued to fish those kids of streams after Labor Day and before the next year’s opener? Given the grayness in the regs, and the general common interpretation that C&R is ok, I’ve always felt like it was an acceptable risk I could tolerate.

To start, you almost never see a WCO period on these streams...I have exactly once, and I was walking back to my vehicle on a SF road and he was driving by. He stopped and we talked a bit. The stream was a rhodo tunnel stream (Greenlee Run in Rothrock SF) and he was surprised I was fishing it. I told him it was my first time here, and that although I caught a few, I wouldn’t be back as it wasn’t a whole lot of fun to fish. It was May I think, so the season wasn’t an issue though.

Even if you do see a WCO in the Fall though, I figured he’d understand the reg or at least be reasonable once I showed him I wasn’t possessing any fish. I mean, the WCO you encountered was likely factually correct, but his approach was less than ideal. Though he seemingly acknowledged C&R was ok by not ticketing you.

 

[Dave_W]

troutbert wrote:

The circumstances were that I was fishing an unstocked, Class A stream in October in a rural area. I heard a vehicle coming down the road, heard the brakes being applied hard, and the vehicle coming to an abrupt stop. Then the door slammed. A WCO scrambled down the bank, yelling angrily "Don't you know trout season is closed!!"

I replied, "I thought it was OK to fish on a catch-and-release basis."

He said, "That may be TECHNICALLY true, but if you kill or injure a trout, even accidentally, I could write you up."

He went back to his vehicle, and drove off.

What a strange encounter.

I think the behavior of the WCO was out of line.

Can you imagine if you were on Spring Creek or some other special reg stream requiring C&R and got the same claim about killing or "injuring a trout, even accidentally."
Same logic applies... but the claim would be considered absurd.

 

[troutbert]

Swattie87 wrote:
tb - Did that encounter effect whether or not you’ve continued to fish those kids of streams after Labor Day and before the next year’s opener? Given the grayness in the regs, and the general common interpretation that C&R is ok, I’ve always felt like it was an acceptable risk I could tolerate.

To start, you almost never see a WCO period on these streams...I have exactly once, and I was walking back to my vehicle on a SF road and he was driving by. He stopped and we talked a bit. The stream was a rhodo tunnel stream (Greenlee Run in Rothrock SF) and he was surprised I was fishing it. I told him it was my first time here, and that although I caught a few, I wouldn’t be back as it wasn’t a whole lot of fun to fish. It was May I think, so the season wasn’t an issue though.

Even if you do see a WCO in the Fall though, I figured he’d understand the reg or at least be reasonable once I showed him I wasn’t possessing any fish. I mean, the WCO you encountered was likely factually correct, but his approach was less than ideal. Though he seemingly acknowledged C&R was ok by not ticketing you.

I have continued to fish year around. But that's irrelevant to the issue.

The issue is that the rule and the interpretations that the PFBC have been putting on their website regarding this are vague and contradictory.

Which puts both the public and the WCOs in a bad situation.

So they should fix it. It would be easy to do.

Someone has already posted the solution.

They should simply state that it is OK to fish for trout, on a catch-and-release basis.

That's it! Very simple.

 

[troutbert]

Dave_W wrote:

troutbert wrote:

The circumstances were that I was fishing an unstocked, Class A stream in October in a rural area. I heard a vehicle coming down the road, heard the brakes being applied hard, and the vehicle coming to an abrupt stop. Then the door slammed. A WCO scrambled down the bank, yelling angrily "Don't you know trout season is closed!!"

I replied, "I thought it was OK to fish on a catch-and-release basis."

He said, "That may be TECHNICALLY true, but if you kill or injure a trout, even accidentally, I could write you up."

He went back to his vehicle, and drove off.

What a strange encounter.

I think the behavior of the WCO was out of line.

Can you imagine if you were on Spring Creek or some other special reg stream requiring C&R and got the same claim about killing or "injuring a trout, even accidentally."
Same logic applies... but the claim would be considered absurd.

The WCO was using the same interpretation that the PFBC had posted on their website. As seen in the OP.

 

[Mike]

The last paragraph within the box of paragraphs provided by the op clearly explains the Agency’s thinking and that appears to continue today. I believe that a broad analysis that took all trout stream sections, stocked and wild, into consideration would reveal that fishing for trout is encouraged in all stocked trout sections, the sections downstream, special reg areas (trout), and Class A sections. Note the row highlighted in yellow regarding trout on the chart, page 10, of the 2020 Regulation Summary Booklet and the last note below the chart. By process of elimination fishing is not prohibited but not encouraged in Class B, C, and D sections that are not stocked and are not downstream from stocked sections. I had nothing to do with the Agency’s formulation of this topic or related regs so I would appreciate it if you would not start up with me about it.

 

[jifigz]

I have never run into a WCO on a trout stream ever. I'm the autumn through the winter I encounter them while fishing the Juniata quite regularly. They drive by my place a lot and I've seen them other places on the J. They usually check me and then move along.

I had a very positive encounter once with a WCO while fishing in Victory Park in early January. I didn't have a license because if expired December 31 and they came down and talked to me. It was frigid cold and I had a very nice spinning rod, baitcaster, and all kinds of tackle with me. I assured them I was a serious angler and always bought a license. They said if I bought one and mailed them a copy within a week I was good. I complied and never heard from them again. Both gentlemen were very respectful and cordial.

 

[Bamboozle]

My mother taught me to never argue with a cop, even if they're wrong... ;-)

That being said, I have had a few encounters with WCO's & DCNR Rangers when they were dead wrong about the regulations or had a different interpretation than I did.

I always do what I'm told or what I feel is the prudent thing to do however when I get home, I do my homework and if they were wrong or I want clarification, I email the respective agency's law enforcement division, describe what I encountered and keep a copy of the response with me if I plan to fish under similar circumstances in the future.

I've have received apologies when I was right and never needed to show a LEO the emails so I assume they were informed of the situation when their interpretation was incorrect.

I don't do this to be a wise guy but because I have the utmost respect for LEO's and I understand mistakes and I don't want to make them.